10-08-2014, 19:30
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Polaris DAGOR ultra-light truck ready for combat
Polaris DAGOR ultra-light truck ready for combat
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...d=cmty_plus_fn
"U.S. Special Forces will soon be riding into battle in a race-bred truck.
The Polaris DAGOR is a compact military machine that uses a trophy truck-style suspension for extreme off-road capability and was developed in partnership with Roush Industries of NASCAR fame.
The purpose-built military machine is about the size of a four-door Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, but can fit up to nine warfighters onboard: four in the cabin, four in the bed, and a roof gunner positioned in a sling seat suspended from the roll cage...."
Hmmmm
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Pete is offline
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10-13-2014, 13:49
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#2
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South Africa
Posts: 911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Polaris DAGOR ultra-light truck ready for combat
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...d=cmty_plus_fn
"U.S. Special Forces will soon be riding into battle in a race-bred truck.
The Polaris DAGOR is a compact military machine that uses a trophy truck-style suspension for extreme off-road capability and was developed in partnership with Roush Industries of NASCAR fame.
The purpose-built military machine is about the size of a four-door Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, but can fit up to nine warfighters onboard: four in the cabin, four in the bed, and a roof gunner positioned in a sling seat suspended from the roll cage...."
Hmmmm |
I am amazed that there seems to have been absolutely no thought to "mine proofing" the vehicle. Surely the stats have shown that a very high proportion of modern day casualties are the results of mines and IEDs?How fast does a vehicle have to be to be able to outrun an IED? How nimble, to escape a buried mine?
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Guymullins is offline
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10-13-2014, 14:06
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Big Green
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guymullins
I am amazed that there seems to have been absolutely no thought to "mine proofing" the vehicle.....
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Big Green has many cogs in it's machine. This cog has come full circle and is starting another go round.
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Pete is offline
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10-13-2014, 14:27
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guymullins
I am amazed that there seems to have been absolutely no thought to "mine proofing" the vehicle. Surely the stats have shown that a very high proportion of modern day casualties are the results of mines and IEDs?How fast does a vehicle have to be to be able to outrun an IED? How nimble, to escape a buried mine?
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For conventional troops operating in a "mature" IED threat environment, you're correct. This vehicle is primarily for SOF operating in an "immature" threat environment. This vehicle also has provisions to increase crew protection incrementally as a conflict "matures" and threat levels increase. A lot of thought has gone into this. There are no perfect solutions. BLUF - you can't protect against everything and still have a vehicle that meets operational needs. The calculus is unforgiving. Standard bell-curve math. Considering what it takes to get it to the fight, what it can carry once it gets there, where it has to go to accomplish mission, and what the most likely threat will be this meets the 85-90% requirement. Left end will be Toyota pick-ups (or similar), right end will be MATVs (or similar). Other gaps will be filled with ingenuity/improvisation from whatever is at hand.
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Peregrino is offline
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10-08-2014, 20:08
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
What is wrong with a Toyota 4x4 pickup with a 50 or MK19 mounted in the bed.
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It doesn't cost $150,000.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-09-2014, 05:35
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
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So my question is, where do you put the ammo, the med bags, litters/backboards, the radios, batteries, mortar, water, food, rucksacks, etc?
I'm not sure but I don't see a turret for the M2. Am I missing something?
I hope it is solar powered too, I wouldn't want our soldiers to endanger some foreign country's environment! Think of the children!
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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miclo18d is offline
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10-09-2014, 06:10
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
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Last picture
Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d
...I'm not sure but I don't see a turret for the M2. Am I missing something?...
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Last picture shows the little sling seat.
About the same size as a Hummer and shocked up like that dune buggy thingy from the 1980's. That could hold four - but crowded when you added all the gear.
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Pete is offline
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10-09-2014, 07:08
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
What is wrong with a Toyota 4x4 pickup with a 50 or MK19 mounted in the bed.
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Just read Roughneck 91 book, and you will learn.
It's not all about on theater, the vision has to be global as far as a fighting vehicle.
Now UW wise, local vehicle every time.
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History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
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Last edited by MtnGoat; 10-09-2014 at 07:10.
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MtnGoat is offline
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10-09-2014, 08:07
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orange, Ca.
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Looking at the pictures, armor for the gunner is the guy on either side of him with body armor and all the gear packed in around them.
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mark46th is offline
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10-09-2014, 09:18
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
I was being a bit sarcastic in my comment.
So all kidding aside here is a thought. One of the lessons of WWII was in a tank any one using the MG was exposed and caused a lot of casualties so after WWII notice all tanks ie M-47, M-48, M-60 had a coupla to hide in while firing the MG. The Abrams is the first US tank to not have one.
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That is what the coax MG is for.
This beast should, at least theoretically, have much better off road speed and mobility than a Toyota. Speed is security. The more armor you add, the slower the vehicle will go.
I don't know too many SF guys who would rather be patrolling in MRAPs.
IIRC, this was designed to fit in a MH-47 as well.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-09-2014, 18:41
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western Carolina in the rainforest,4000' along the Eastern Cont. Div.
Posts: 1,427
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This gives me a chance to ask about a sentence Polaris used to describe the DARGOR, now I like Polaris and I can see the different mission sets they are working on. " Soldiers in the UCLV will be protected from kinetic threats by their Personal Protective Equipment and will rely on speed and maneuverability to avoid threats". Perhaps something so obvious shouldn't need to be mentioned as and end user might not see the pros in it... 
Here is the source: http://soldiersystems.net/category/mobility/
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Golf1echo is offline
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10-12-2014, 14:45
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#12
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Currently based in the US
Posts: 414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf1echo
This gives me a chance to ask about a sentence Polaris used to describe the DARGOR, now I like Polaris and I can see the different mission sets they are working on. " Soldiers in the UCLV will be protected from kinetic threats by their Personal Protective Equipment and will rely on speed and maneuverability to avoid threats". ]
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It means "This is the HMMWV before everybody dicked with it."
I was on the original HMMWV design team. 
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plato is offline
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10-12-2014, 13:04
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#13
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
I was being a bit sarcastic in my comment.
So all kidding aside here is a thought. One of the lessons of WWII was in a tank any one using the MG was exposed and caused a lot of casualties so after WWII notice all tanks ie M-47, M-48, M-60 had a coupla to hide in while firing the MG. The Abrams is the first US tank to not have one.
Fast forward to 2001 conflicts and as ya'll know gunners made up hillbilly armor to protect themselves from gun fire because just like WWII they were exposed.
So my question is, Where is the damn coupla for the gunner? You just as well be in a toyota 4x4 as a gunner because you get no more protection in this damn thing than a Toyota!.
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You can't fire from inside in an Abrams? In the Stryker you can fire from the inside using a little tv and a joystick.
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Party Pete.
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PokemonMaster is offline
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10-12-2014, 14:32
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokemonMaster
You can't fire from inside in an Abrams? In the Stryker you can fire from the inside using a little tv and a joystick.
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The coax M240 is operated from inside the tank alongside the main gun.
The Loader's M240 is operated outside the tank.
Original M1s and M1A1s had a remotely operated M-2 .50 BMG, but the M1A2 needed the space for upgraded Tank Commander optics. The M1A2 TUSK is supposed to restore the remote operating capability to the TC's M-2 BMG.
The main gun is obviously operated from inside the tank.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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10-12-2014, 17:52
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
I don't know if anyone knows the answer to this, but it is something that I have been wondering about---namely, in an Abrams tank, does the space the loader has to load the ammunition into rotate as the turret rotates the main gun? How does that work?
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Google is amazing.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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