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Old 09-13-2012, 10:57   #1
dennisw
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The mortgage meltdown

When trying to assess our current economic troubles and doing so as normal or average citizens it becomes troublesome as we’re constantly bombarded with the same information. With this constant deluge of data or maybe misinformation, it’s hard to ascertain the implicit reality. I believe we tend to grab the facts or theories, which line up with our inherent economic or political beliefs. Does this provide insight or greater self-delusion?

As an example, some believe the government is responsible for creating jobs. Others believe the government should get out of the way, allowing a capitalist economy to create jobs and prosperity. Accordingly when I read information and it lines up with the latter philosophy, I have a tendency to believe it.

Also, the forest of issues and information appears often to be too vast and incomprehensible. Assessing culpability has political repercussions and objectivity and truth can become a casualty. I believe it is helpful to examine some of the larger trees and in doing so we can become enlighten. Hopefully we will not miss the forest in the process.

For instance, why the mortgage meltdown? Was it the greedy bankers, the heartless brokers or Wall Street with their derivatives that put us on this slippery slope? Thomas Sowell has assisted us in our analysis by providing some much-needed revelation, and the blame in his mind should be clearly laid at the feet of the Clinton administration. It’s ironic as Clinton is now viewed as such a fiscal responsible president, a moniker I believe he owes largely to the high tech explosion and the “contract with America” republican congress. Hopefully history will properly assess him in say 50 years (although Franklin Roosevelt is still seen as many as a savior during the depression). Maybe not.


http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/le...e-lending.html




Thomas Sowell: Clinton's brass standard
He put teeth in the housing policies that created the mortgage crisis.



By THOMAS SOWELL

Syndicated columnist

Politics takes a lot of brass. And Bill Clinton is a master politician. His rousing speech at the Democrats' convention told the delegates that Republicans "want to go back to the same old policies that got us into trouble in the first place."

That is world-class brass. Bill Clinton's own administration, more than any other, promoted an unsustainable housing boom, which eventually and inevitably led to a housing bust that brought down the whole American economy.

Behind all the complex financial processes that reached to Wall Street and beyond, there is one fundamental fact: many people stopped making their mortgage payments.
Why did that happen? Because mortgage loans were made to people who did not meet the long-established qualification standards for getting a mortgage loan. And why did that happen? Because the Clinton administration threatened lawsuits against lenders who did not approve mortgage loans to minority applicants as often as to white applicants.

In other words, racial quotas replaced credit qualifications. A failure to have racial statistics on mortgage approvals that fit the government's preconceptions was equated with discrimination.
Attorney General Janet Reno said that lenders who "closely examine their lending practices and make necessary changes to eliminate discrimination" would "fare better in this department's stepped-up enforcement effort than those who do not." She said: "Do not wait for the Justice Department to come knocking."

Clinton's Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) had similar racial quota policies, and began taking legal actions against banks that turned down more minority applicants than HUD thought they should. HUD said that it was breaking down "racial and ethnic barriers" so as to create more "access" to home ownership. It established "goals" – political Newspeak for quotas – for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy mortgages that the original lenders had made to "the underserved population." In other words, the original lenders could pass on the increasingly risky mortgages to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – and, ultimately, to the taxpayers.

Other federal agencies warned mortgage lenders against having credit standards that these agencies considered too high. And these agencies had many powers to use against banks and other lenders who did not heed their warnings.

The Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, for example, issued guidelines for "non-discriminatory" lending which warned lenders against "unreasonable measures of creditworthiness." Lenders should have standards "appropriate to the economic culture of urban lower-income and nontraditional consumers" and consider "extenuating circumstances." In other words, when some people don't come up to the lending standards, then the lending standards should be brought down to them.

What was the evidence for all the lending discrimination that the government was supposedly trying to prevent? Statistics.
In the year 2000, for example, black applicants for conventional mortgage loans were turned down at twice the rate for white applicants. Case closed, as far as the media and the government were concerned. Had they bothered to look a little deeper, they would have found that whites were turned down at nearly twice the rate for Asian Americans.

Had they bothered to check out average credit scores, they would have discovered that whites had higher average credit scores than blacks, and Asian Americans had higher average credit scores than whites.
Such inconvenient facts would have undermined the whole moral melodrama, reducing it to a case of plain economics, with lenders more likely to lend to those who were more likely to pay them back. Once lending standards were lowered, to meet racial quotas, they were lowered for everybody. Deadbeats of any race could get mortgage loans, and most were probably not minorities.

Democrats like to blame the "greed" of business, rather than the policies of government, for problems. But lenders don't make money by lending to individuals who don't pay them back.
That is what government forced lenders to do, beginning under the Clinton administration. And the eventual collapse took down the economy.

It takes brass to defy the facts. And Bill Clinton has brass.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:03   #2
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Pick your poison

This topic has been discussed quite a bit, both on this forum and many, many others. You can find a slew of experts that put forth their well documented arguments that lay the blame at someones feet--inept or corrupt politicians (democrats or republicans), greedy banks and corporations, too much regulation, too little regulation--this list goes on.

I blame us. We repeatedly elect the inept or corrupt politicians and we took the money. Everyone could argue all they want about how it's someone elses fault, but we--the american people--signed for the bad loan. We need to redevelop a sense of personal responsibility.
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Old 09-13-2012, 14:37   #3
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Based on a close relative, the mortgage crisis has much to do with morals and ethics.

He and his bank knew that over 60% of the mortgages they processed would fail. All he was interested in was his commission. It wasn't his money they were lending and what he was doing was legal and SOP within the industry.
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Old 09-13-2012, 16:58   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragrouper View Post
This topic has been discussed quite a bit, both on this forum and many, many others. You can find a slew of experts that put forth their well documented arguments that lay the blame at someones feet--inept or corrupt politicians (democrats or republicans), greedy banks and corporations, too much regulation, too little regulation--this list goes on.

I blame us. We repeatedly elect the inept or corrupt politicians and we took the money. Everyone could argue all they want about how it's someone elses fault, but we--the american people--signed for the bad loan. We need to redevelop a sense of personal responsibility.
MOO, a contributing factor to the confused discussion of the recession is that Americans often prefer tidy answers to exceptionally complex questions. We want to know if it was A or B, C or D, E or F, when the answer is more likely "all of the above and then some."

I also think we're not very good at differentiating between making an accounting of the past and holding people, groups, and institutions accountable. By this, I mean in our haste to assess credit and blame for what went wrong, we lose focus on answering the most basic of questions: what actually happened?
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Based on a close relative, the mortgage crisis has much to do with morals and ethics.

He and his bank knew that over 60% of the mortgages they processed would fail. All he was interested in was his commission. It wasn't his money they were lending and what he was doing was legal and SOP within the industry.
On a similar note, at the time the SHTF, I was working for an employee-owned consultancy that centered its practices around the construction industry--both commercial and residential. Historically, this company, had centered its plans for growth around conservative and balanced projections of economic growth and trends within the industry.

However, as the housing bubble grew, the Powers That Be abandoned its core principles and based its growth plans on the assumption that the economy would continue to expand at a blistering pace. On the plus side, these plans led to the firm doing more hiring and that not only accounted for the slot I was hired to fill but other slots as well so that the work load became more manageable for the consultants handling larger projects.

Yet, it was very unsettling to sit through briefings with .PPT slides with graphs and tables that did not make sense unless one was looking through lenses tinted the color of money. One of the dissenting voices was eventually told to STFU and was among the first to get thrown over the side when things went sideways. But he's not the least bit bitter about it. At all.
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Old 09-13-2012, 17:28   #5
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Greed is a powerful thing.
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Old 09-13-2012, 18:34   #6
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Originally Posted by Sigaba View Post
But he's not the least bit bitter about it. At all.
Naaaaw....Not the least bit....but I think they may be appreciated than they realize.

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the color of money
I remember a particular soccer parent telling 'It's raining money' and 'They are just giving it away'.
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Old 09-13-2012, 20:45   #7
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Sigaba said:

Quote:
On a similar note, at the time the SHTF, I was working for an employee-owned consultancy that centered its practices around the construction industry--both commercial and residential. Historically, this company, had centered its plans for growth around conservative and balanced projections of economic growth and trends within the industry.

However, as the housing bubble grew, the Powers That Be abandoned its core principles and based its growth plans on the assumption that the economy would continue to expand at a blistering pace. On the plus side, these plans led to the firm doing more hiring and that not only accounted for the slot I was hired to fill but other slots as well so that the work load became more manageable for the consultants handling larger projects.

Yet, it was very unsettling to sit through briefings with .PPT slides with graphs and tables that did not make sense unless one was looking through lenses tinted the color of money. One of the dissenting voices was eventually told to STFU and was among the first to get thrown over the side when things went sideways. But he's not the least bit bitter about it. At all.
So what happened to the company?

Flagg said:

Quote:
but does that 5-10% of blame really matter? Aren't both sides pretty culpable in this mess?
Is the 5 - 10% number arbitrary?

I think it may feel more comfortable to sit on the sidelines with non-partisan wrath. Personally I don't see the point. What if the percentage was 95%, would you feel differently?

I think to a degree we're missing the threshold point. Where were the shitty loans and all the greed before the credit rules were changed? Before the rules were changed, you couldn't make shitty loans. Changing the rules was the pivotal event. Without it, there is no mortgage meltdown.

I guess the real question is why didn't someone in either party try and change it.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123137220550562585.html

Quote:
When Republican Richard Shelby of Alabama, then chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, pushed for comprehensive GSE reform in 2005, Democrat Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut successfully threatened a filibuster. Later, after Fannie and Freddie collapsed, Mr. Dodd asked, "Why weren't we doing more?" He then voted for the Bush reforms that he once called "ill-advised."
So after Fannie and Freddie collapsed, Dodd votes for reforms. What if the rules had been changed?

Just a side note, when Rahm Emanuel was kicked out of White House by Clinton guess what plum job was waiting for him? Board member at Fannie Mae. Big deal. What do Board Members make? $300,000 per year.
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Old 09-13-2012, 16:53   #8
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Originally Posted by Paragrouper View Post
This topic has been discussed quite a bit, both on this forum and many, many others. You can find a slew of experts that put forth their well documented arguments that lay the blame at someones feet--inept or corrupt politicians (democrats or republicans), greedy banks and corporations, too much regulation, too little regulation--this list goes on.

I blame us. We repeatedly elect the inept or corrupt politicians and we took the money. Everyone could argue all they want about how it's someone elses fault, [COLOR="rgb(255, 140, 0)"]but we--the american people--signed for the bad loan.[/COLOR] We need to redevelop a sense of personal responsibility.
Although this subject has been discussed in the past, I don't remember reading before how the active participation by the Clinton administration affected the situation. When you say "I blame us" I'm assuming you mean us as the voters. Ultimately we are the blame for everything. However, we need to know the reason behind the mortgage meltdown if we want to avoid it in the future.

Paslode talks about how greedy bankers adversely affected the situation. No one can deny their culpability and the culpability of others. However, if there are no subprime loans or the mechanisms which promoted subprime loans, the landscape changes dramatically.

If there are no subprime loans the issue of derivatives becomes a moot point. Additionally, the media and the democrats have place the bulk of the blame for the recession squarely in Bush's court, and if the truth were know, Obama is not president now. IMO it changes the political landscape dramatically.

Then again the truth is known and it makes very little difference.
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Old 09-13-2012, 17:32   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragrouper View Post
This topic has been discussed quite a bit, both on this forum and many, many others. You can find a slew of experts that put forth their well documented arguments that lay the blame at someones feet--inept or corrupt politicians (democrats or republicans), greedy banks and corporations, too much regulation, too little regulation--this list goes on.

I blame us. We repeatedly elect the inept or corrupt politicians and we took the money. Everyone could argue all they want about how it's someone elses fault, but we--the american people--signed for the bad loan. We need to redevelop a sense of personal responsibility.
I would agree.

The focus of my wrath is non-partisan...yup...quite convincing sounding arguments could be made to argue over which side has a more blame than the other, but does that 5-10% of blame really matter? Aren't both sides pretty culpable in this mess?

I'm with you, and think it's everyone......I blame folks for not protecting their political process from becoming so polluted with special interest money possessing excessive influence and control over the direction of the country and leading to things like the mortgage meltdown.

The guy who has helped me to better understand what has happened, is happening, and is likely to continue happening is Eric Janszen the owner of iTulip.com.

He's a pretty non-partisan guy. Big brain, serial successful entrepreneur, he's made some scary accurate predictions the last decade+, and he has been able to break down the enormity and complexity of what's been going on so a moron like me can better understand parts of it.
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