Eric Haney on Schools as Targets

**Roguish Lawyer** · 09-08-2004, 15:16

He was on TV a couple of days ago, on Fox I think, commenting on Beslan and the general topic of terrorists attacking schools. He said he is very concerned that terrorists are targeting schools (taking hostages or just killing kids or whatever) in the US, particularly Jewish schools. He said it is critical for local LEOs to get their SWAT teams trained ASAP to deal with this type of threat because federal units like HRT and Delta cannot be deployed quickly enough to respond if the terrorists start killing early.

While I am sure that there are limitations on what some of you can say in a public forum, I am interested in any comments on what SGM Haney had to say.

rubberneck · 09-08-2004, 15:25

I am afraid that no SWAT team in America can handle a well co-ordinated terrorist attack on a school especially if they have explosives. If the terrorists are hell bent on blowing themselves up I don't see how you can stop them after they have gained control of the school. Any assault is likely to lead to the detonation of the explosives and the loss of life. As a nation our only hope is to keep them out in the first place.

**The Reaper** · 09-08-2004, 16:12

You have to lock down the facility, delay the bad guys, and keep them out till the cavalry arrives.

To do this you need good SA/intel, a good response plan, an SRT on a short leash, and most of all, dedicated SROs with the right weapons and training to fight a delaying action.

The SRO at Columbine exchanged a few rounds and ran. If you do that with the current threat, you can write off your kids.

I think ALL officers need better training, and a minimum of a patrol carbine and gas in every car.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Air.177 · 09-08-2004, 16:18

What about letting Qualified Teachers Carry? Maybe just have a carbine in a Locker in their Classroom. Of course you would have to train the hell out of them else a determined student would just pick up and use their weapon after they got shot

**Team Sergeant** · 09-08-2004, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air.177

What about letting Qualified Teachers Carry? Maybe just have a carbine in a Locker in their Classroom. Of course you would have to train the hell out of them else a determined student would just pick up and use their weapon after they got shot

Haven't done much Counter-Terror work have you Air.....
Push away from the keyboard, now move out and draw fire!

TS

Air.177 · 09-08-2004, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Haven't done much Counter-Terror work have you Air.....
Push away from the keyboard, now move out and draw fire!

TS

Sorry TS, Was intended as a reply to TR's statement about a delaying action. Not an alternate course of action all together. I agree that the best folks for the task should be used, but they may not always be available immediately.

**Team Sergeant** · 09-08-2004, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubberneck

I am afraid that no SWAT team in America can handle a well co-ordinated terrorist attack on a school especially if they have explosives.

This is true.

It took the local LEO's HOURS to enter Columbine high school and the teenage gunmen were already dead.

The solution is not an LEO SWAT team, the solution lies with the US military.

wfraser · 08-29-2006, 13:30

Working on the local SWAT/SRT team one of the main things we have focused on is schools. Why? Schools are the heart of the community....not Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot. When kids are envolved Americans tend to loose their minds. We run one senario after another on schools and we practice different entries. A school taken hostage is one of the worst things that can happen in a community. One of our questions we ask ourself is do we do a dynamic entry or not? You guys who have done CQC what is your opinon. My thoughts were suprise, speed and violence. The only problem I have is that our target idenfication may be on the slow side. We don't need any SWAT guys popping the wrong kids. Anyone know some drills that could help this. We have a guy from the 10th group coming in October who is suppose to hit on this subject. Is he going to be able to help with this? LATER.

**The Reaper** · 08-29-2006, 13:44

Read up on Beslan.

Anything you get that does not involve a WMD is bound to be easier than that.

The failure by the SRO at Columbine to take the fight to the bad guys and the decision to wait for everyone to set up for a Slow and Deliberate clear cost several victims their lives there.

IMHO, better to take a round from a threat than to pop a kid by accident (or to let one bleed out). ID and determine threat level before engaging. Make lots of Sims training events and liberally use no shoot role players when the school is available for training.

TR

Smokin Joe · 08-29-2006, 14:04

Try to use kids in your Sims scenarios for your no shoot and shoot targets. Las Vegas Metro SWAT did a huge active shooter training a couple of years ago and it encompased an entire junior high and high school to include hundreds of kids, teachers, and administrators. Done in the middle of the day. I have no idea how they accomplished it but you may want to get in touch with them and see how they did it.