Carbine (handgun) caliber

[swatsurgeon]

If you had the choice of a carbine that fires typical handgun rounds (9, .40, .45) which one would you choose and why. Have fired the hK UMP in .45 but know nothing of the ballistics out of that weapon. 9mm is cheaper than other two calibers but interms of ballistic profile, which is a better choice.

Backround: having a carbine (16" barrel) that uses same ammo as sidearm seems like a reasonable idea.....analogy to back up gun same caliber as primary sidearm, etc. Good for camping and car long gun??

Opinions.......??

ss

[Peregrino]

Stick with the 9mm. Check out CMMG, then Rock River and don't deviate from an AR platform. It'll mostly be for plinking anyway so why not get the cheapest one to feed with the longest track record for reliability/quality, and availability of magazines/accessories? If you go with the CMMG you can get just the upper and use it on your M4gery lower with a magazine adapter and a buffer. Saves even more money. But that's just my .02, YMMV.

(When I said plinking - that's what I meant. 16" has better ballistics for the pistol cartrige but there's a reason real shooters use 5.56 for their long(er) guns. Personally, I'd stick with a standard 5.56 and get a dedicated .22 LR upper to train with. All the guys in my office agree - they can't quit drooling over mine and after our range session several have already spent money to get their own.)

[ES 96]

Do you have your eye on a Marlin Camp carbine (9mm or .45 ACP) or Ruger Police carbine (9mm or .40 S&W) per chance?

both out of production but come up pretty regularly used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin_Camp_Carbine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Police_Carbine

[doctom54]

I have the Marlin Camp carbine in .45. I picked it because it uses the same magazine as the 1911. (If your going to have interchangeable ammo you might as well use the same mags.) Also I don't own any 9mms since I'm trying to stick to as few different calibers as possible.
CSM Galen "Pappy" Kittleson in the book "Raider: The True Story of the Legendary Soldier Who Performed More POW Raids than Any Other American in History" said he preferred the Thompson for use in the jungle.
I'm not sure of .45 ACP ballistics out of a 16 inch barrel. I'm in the middle of a move or I'd chrono a few different rounds.

[MK262MOD1]

I have a AR45 with magwell cut to take grease gun magazines and a AR15 with Hahn block and 9mm upper that takes sten magazines. Both guns are blowback and very reliable.

I like the AR45 but 45 ACP isn't cheap and its super easy to run through a ton of it. Buy far it is my favorite pistol carbine. I actually put 45 rounds through mine today.

I enjoy the 9mm carbine because 9 ball is cheaper these days. Therefore more range/training time.

If I was to buy a pistol carbine today I would absolutely go with a AR platform and the edge goes to 9mm cartridge.

I would recommend the RRA or Colt. Rock River being the more economical and 9mm being the economical caliber.

That all being said my go to carbine will always be 5.56mm.

MK262M1 sends

[Axe]

If I'm going to deal with the increased size and weight of a rifle, I personally want to get something much better than slightly increased pistol performance from that rifle.

I do enjoy plinking with camp carbines, though.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by swatsurgeon

If you had the choice of a carbine that fires typical handgun rounds (9, .40, .45) which one would you choose and why. Have fired the hK UMP in .45 but know nothing of the ballistics out of that weapon. 9mm is cheaper than other two calibers but interms of ballistic profile, which is a better choice.

Backround: having a carbine (16" barrel) that uses same ammo as sidearm seems like a reasonable idea.....analogy to back up gun same caliber as primary sidearm, etc. Good for camping and car long gun??

Opinions.......??

ss

If you're shooting ball ammo to kill, use .45 ACP. With 9mm HP projectiles, the round slows down enough upon penetration to transfer sufficient energy to kill.
Just hit a lethal zone.

Don't know what you plan on for a maximum range...

Quick trajectory info:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_trajectory_table.htm

I use this ballistic data for reference:

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html

I'm an oddball about carbines, though. I like .30 cal.

[JJ_BPK]

I have mulled this question for yrs. And I still haven't seen what I think is a "carbine" in pistol caliber. The problem I have with the AR format is size. It can be stripped but is not light. And I don't see 100 rd mags or belt feed as a requirement.

What I do have is a 1969 circa, Ruger .44 mag Deerstalker Carbine. It looks like and feels like the Ruger 10/22, with more punch. It has a tube feed for 4 rounds, so it is not HI-SPEED. It is only about 5.5 lbs loaded. It handles and shoots well. I took an ammo sock for 30.06 and mounted it on the stock, holds 18 rounds. Mounted an older Aimpoint,, Should get me past the initial charge, until I get back-up.

Net Net,, your requirement for a carbine need definition.

Hi-speed??
Plinking??
Home Protection??
Hunting??

I get all scenarios covered by the Ruger,, until the Zombies come, in which case I have AR, AK, FAL, xxx choices..

Don't forget the AK, med-light, plinker, ammo prices coming down, if you run out, your neighbor probably has a stash of ammo,, so do the Zombies.. It has a real folding stock or no stock in the case of a pistol...

Not saying the .22 AR upper,, (or in pistol cal) doesn't make sense... But ,, I am a cheepo,, 500 USD for 1/2 a gun is border line. My Ruger was less than 400 USD,, currently you can find the older ones for around 500+-



Here is my Ruger, my AK pistol and an example of a custom AK pistol I lust for..

[swatsurgeon]

Thank you one and all for the opinions....
I have my AR-15 in 5.56, it is a 'go to' gun but a new carbine is to utilize handgun ammo which is everywhere....literally. I have a 7.62x39 that is around 6lbs but despite ammo becoming cheaper, it is not in any volume at the local walmart and handgun ammo is. Most of my neighbors don't have one so that source is a no go.
This carbine could be used for hunting, personal defense or skills practice; all to be economical and have readily available source of ammo. Just seemed intuitive to have 2 weapon systems and one ammo type.
I have to keep thinking about this one.........

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by swatsurgeon

I have a 7.62x39 that is around 6lbs but despite ammo becoming cheaper, it is not in any volume at the local walmart and handgun ammo is.

Most of my neighbors don't have one so that source is a no go.

On line ammo is about as good as it gets. Also 1K case is where you save the paso's..

I guess I'd move out of that neighborhood,, You don't have a defensive position with depth. You will end up being the go-to guy for all the Sheeple around you.

You have only two choices,, as I see it...

1. Butch up the neighbors, Start a neighborhood surveillance team, Change the Sheeple to Operators.. Start rucking classes...
   
2. Move to the trailer park down by the tracks,, Lower taxes, Less lawn to mow, Every neighbor becomes a relative over time, and the week after payday (when everyone is broke),, you can get great deals on weapons & ammo..

Good Luck..

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

On line ammo is about as good as it gets. Also 1K case is where you save the paso's..

I guess I'd move out of that neighborhood,, You don't have a defensive position with depth. You will end up being the go-to guy for all the Sheeple around you.

You have only two choices,, as I see it...

1. Butch up the neighbors, Start a neighborhood surveillance team, Change the Sheeple to Operators.. Start rucking classes...
   
2. Move to the trailer park down by the tracks,, Lower taxes, Less lawn to mow, Every neighbor becomes a relative over time, and the week after payday (when everyone is broke),, you can get great deals on weapons & ammo..

Good Luck..

Every neighbor becomes a relative over time

[PSM]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

I guess I'd move out of that neighborhood,, You don't have a defensive position with depth.

Good Luck..

Got that covered. We're 14 miles from the border and the Border Patrol is 20. They have our back!

Pat

[El Cid]

If I could afford one I'd get an HK MP5 clone in 10mm. Out of a carbine, 10mm is a great performer. I had to give up my duty one, but would have gladly kept it. We use the Federal 190gr JHP but if you can get the "hi" locking piece (as in high pressure), you could look at using "real" 10mm instead of .40 Long.

Another option, especially since you want interchangeability with your sidearm... look at the Kriss TDI (they have fixed some of the teething problems from the early models), and a G21. Same ammo, same mags.

Let us know what you decide.

[mark46th]

TR- I have a Ruger SS Security Six in .357 Magnum as a side arm when I hunt pigs. I have thought about getting a Lever-action in the same for shits and giggles. If I find a deal on one, I will buy it. I have a Ruger .44 Mag Deerfield that I picked up from a friend who needed some cash... Fun to mess around with....

[ES 96]

Originally Posted by swatsurgeon

I have to keep thinking about this one.........

Dream of integrally suppressed .45 ACP Marlin carbines, not so noisy, won't wake you up :

campcarb.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCsLimevhd4

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4_rkEcF_8