U.S. Not Prepared

[The Reaper]

Beslan or Mumbai, bad guys are coming to your country.

We are sending signals of weakness.

Soon, we will have hard decisions to make, and it will get harder if we do not make the right ones.

TR

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...INRG1GCFBT.DTL

U.S. not prepared for Mumbai-like terror attacks
John Arquilla
Sunday, November 21, 2010

It took the 10 terrorists just 10 minutes to overwhelm Mumbai's defenses when they struck in November 2008. They were organized in five two-man teams, and the first waded into the crowd at one of India's biggest railway stations, firing AK-47s and tossing grenades. Soon more than 50 people were dead, a hundred more wounded. While this was going on, three other teams got out of cabs in other parts of the city and walked into two luxury hotels and a swanky restaurant, letting loose with guns and grenades. A fifth team stormed a Jewish community center, killing people and taking hostages.

After the initial wave of attacks, most of the Lashkar-e-Taiba hit men moved on before the police tactical units arrived, and soon five more targets had been struck, including a hospital. Bombs left by the terrorists at other points in the city as they moved around also began going off. It would take Indian law enforcement and military elements three days to bring an end to the crisis, by which time the toll of dead and wounded had reached almost 500.

Today, the concept of attacks by small teams at several sites simultaneously - what I have called "swarm" tactics - has caught on among terrorists. This month alone, we have seen such methods employed in the simultaneous bombings in Baghdad, where over 400 were killed, and in Karachi, Pakistan, two weeks ago, where small teams waged gun battles while a truck bomb went off at a major police installation. Recent intelligence revelations have gone further, suggesting that al Qaeda is planning to swarm cities in France and Germany in the same manner. And there is another hard truth: The next Mumbai-, Baghdad- or Karachi-style attacks could happen in San Francisco. Because, for all these warning signs, there is little evidence that our nation has made effective defensive preparations against assaults of this sort.

(continued at above link)

[GratefulCitizen]

Only way to stop this sort of thing is with an armed populace.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

Only way to stop this sort of thing is with an armed populace.

That is not a bad idea, but Andy Traver is likely to leave Chitown for Obamaville and he wants your guns. Once that happens the BATFE will likely prosecute you for protecting yourself as they will see it as taking the law into your own hands.

Secondly, most of us regular folks don't have the training or haven't honed the skills we would need to properly and safely (as safe as a 2-way range can be) engage such an enemy.

A Russian theater or Mumbai Event takes little more than the blink of an eye and it is too late. I don't know of a city in my proximity that has the capability to respond to that type situation and add to that most of the people are back in the routine of a safe, worry free life. If it were to happen here, we would have a horrible situation on our hands.

[lindy]

Originally Posted by Paslode

A Russian theater or Mumbai Event takes little more than the blink of an eye and it is too late.

Agree the execution is often based on surprise and violence of action but the Achilles heel, IMO, is the pre-strike planning. The theater, the school, and even the city of Mumbai all had "long" planning that required coordination, target designation/financing, and commo.

How did LET get to Mumbai? How did the Chechens get to Moscow and Beslan? Could a strike team use Mexico as a launch point? Could they get weapons there too? Taliban control opium...drug cartels control Mexico...would the two ever work towards a common goal (money and power)?

I believe the only way we can delay the swarm-style attack is to go on the offense but heck, we cannot even get permission to expand Pred strikes in Pakistan!

The political will to unilaterally go deep into denied territory in order to strike our enemies just doesn't seem to exist and the focus seems to be on fixing the economy. So let's cut DOD since Iraq is over and Afghanistan will be over in 36 months.

AQ has always exercised tactical patience...and they return to what works. Just as TR pointed out, swarm-style attacks are common now. The attackers only stop when they have been killed by security forces. Seems like an easy choice to me.

The holiday season is almost upon us. Soon the malls will be full of unarmed and distracted Americans focused on other things besides survival because the USG claims they are doing everything possible to protect its citizens by using scanners and pat-downs. Hmmm...similar situations exist (crowded shopping centers) in Israel but they have dodged a mall attack. I wonder what they're doing (rhetorical)?

[Oldrotorhead]

I could be wrong but from what I saw in the Mumbai videos, and what I have read armed people could have reduced the damage and death toll. Some possible examples of places and times when armed people could have had an impact.

The video in the train station shows one terrorist walkiing unchallanged through the terminal, one or more armed civilian could have stopped him with some training or luck.

On the streets I don't know and have no information to make a guess about what may have helped.

The public areas of the hotel had both guests and employeed they had no way to defend themselves. Armed guests and or employees could have reduced the number of attackers or at least forced them to slow down or change plans.

Hotel guests in their rooms if armed could barricade the entry points and offered a last line of defense. Even armored attackers offer targest when slowed down by barricades and obsticles.

I am untrained in close combat, and could easily have this all wrong, but my opinion is that any action is better than rolling over to die.

[Jgood]

I have a feeling that "when" this attacks accure it will be on our softest of soft targets that will have the most emotional responses places like Schools(of all Levels) and churches.

[mojaveman]

Could a strike team use Mexico as a launch point? Could they get weapons there too? Taliban control opium...drug cartels control Mexico...would the two ever work towards a common goal (money and power)?
[/QUOTE]

Interesting point.

Are we going to see a much larger conglomeration of evil forces intent on destroying western civilization?

[kgoerz]

Originally Posted by mojaveman

Could a strike team use Mexico as a launch point? Could they get weapons there too? Taliban control opium...drug cartels control Mexico...would the two ever work towards a common goal (money and power)?

Interesting point.

Are we going to see a much larger conglomeration of evil forces intent on destroying western civilization?[/QUOTE]

Anyone without a criminal background can get Weapons right here in the USA. Why smuggle them in. Six guys with Rifles attacking three different places in three consecutive days. Would shut our Country down. No one would go to any public places for month.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Paslode

That is not a bad idea, but Andy Traver is likely to leave Chitown for Obamaville and he wants your guns. Once that happens the BATFE will likely prosecute you for protecting yourself as they will see it as taking the law into your own hands.

I live in Arizona.
What charge would the BATFE bring here?

Originally Posted by Paslode

Secondly, most of us regular folks don't have the training or haven't honed the skills we would need to properly and safely (as safe as a 2-way range can be) engage such an enemy.

<shrug>
I'm guessing their chances would still be better armed than they would be unarmed.

If something like this were to happen, it would be nice if Governor Brewer would hold a press conference reminding the world that Arizona has unlicensed concealed carry and that terrorists would stand much better chances in New York, Massachusetts, or even Washington, D.C.

Some of us are fortunate enough to already live in Free America.

[CSB]

And there is another hard truth: The next Mumbai-, Baghdad- or Karachi-style attacks could happen in San Francisco.

Well, if they are going to pick a city, San Francisco is as good a place as any. Definitely won't be any armed resistance from the sheeple.

Second best for a defenseless populace: New York, Chicago. Or anywhere in New Jersey.

MEMO FOR TERRORISTS

Places to avoid:

1 - Anywhere in Tennessee.

[Sten]

Originally Posted by CSB

MEMO FOR TERRORISTS

Places to avoid:

1 - Anywhere in Tennessee.

Please add Texas and Indiana to that list

[akv]

Originally Posted by CSB

MEMO FOR TERRORISTS
Places to avoid:
1 - Anywhere in Tennessee.

IIRC in some book, UBL asked John Walker Lindh how significant an impact blowing up the Hoover Dam would have on America, and Lindh replied where is the Hoover Dam?

Any place with CCW would seem more prepared.

[trvlr]

Originally Posted by CSB

Well, if they are going to pick a city, San Francisco is as good a place as any. Definitely won't be any armed resistance from the sheeple.

Being from the San Francisco Bay Area I've talked to a lot of my friends about this issue. Most of them have achieved what I feel is a realist state of mind on the issue. 'No matter how good big brother gets, some will get through, and we will have to deal with it, make adjustments and move on.'

Whether they hit Memphis Tennessee and kill 100 or San Francisco California and kill 300, I believe we should continue refine our police/intelligence branches yet continue to have a high quality of life. IMO the time where only military members have to accept early death as possibility is over. American civilians should be mentally preparing themselves for attacks.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by CSB

Well, if they are going to pick a city, San Francisco is as good a place as any. Definitely won't be any armed resistance from the sheeple.

Second best for a defenseless populace: New York, Chicago. Or anywhere in New Jersey.

MEMO FOR TERRORISTS

Places to avoid:

1 - Anywhere in Tennessee.

I'll drink to that one.

Originally Posted by CSB

MEMO FOR TERRORISTS

Places to avoid:

1 - Anywhere in Tennessee.

Add Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho and possibly Montana to that list. I like Montana, but of late, it's more like San Francisco.

The Global War on Terror is being fought,... well, globally, so I've just signed a contact, (Phase IV, arming the populace). After mission completion, I'll turn my weapon over to the ODA commander in my area of assignment.