How much Ammo in a Firefight?

flynlead · 07-10-2010, 07:40

How much ammo is typically used in a single firefight? Years ago, it was SOP to carry 210 rounds (5.56). I'm sure that today most SF, contractors and others carry at least this much and probably more. In an actual firefight with small numbers of irregular soldiers (Taliban, drug goons, VC, etc.), how many rounds are used by a single operator before it is over?

In a SHTF situation (think LA riots(s)), if forced to bug out of hostile urban territory on foot for 2 or 3 miles, how many 30 round AR magazines would be needed? I have zero body armor, and zero combat experience. I am fairly well trained with a semiauto AR, but can not shoot and move like the Sundance Kid. Instead of a heavy bug out bag and 10 mags, I think it would be better to carry only water and maybe 4 mags. I think in a prolonged firefight I would be long dead before I got to my 5th mag.

Any thoughts on this?

**Ambush Master** · 07-10-2010, 07:48

Your immediate concern is how much is fixing to be expended on YOUR ASS!!!

Please re-read the welcome e-mail from us and NOTE that along with filling out your Profile, you are to make an INTRODUCTION HERE.....http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...665#post338665.

This is supposed to happen before posting, much less Starting Threads!!

Have a very SF day!!
Martin

QuietCro · 07-10-2010, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by flynlead

I think in a prolonged firefight I would be long dead before I got to my 5th mag.

Any thoughts on this?

Seems you answered your own question....

Paslode · 07-10-2010, 11:29

Assuming you made the required introduction, there are a couple topics/forums on the board that might assist with and/or confirm your thoughts. All which can be accessed by the search feature and provide days upon days of reading.

Just a few.....

Survive

Be Prepared

Martial Law

Everyday carry

Bug Out Bags

Escape & Evasion

Alamo

Barricade

SHTF

jbour13 · 07-10-2010, 11:55

I'll answer it simple style.

As much as the mission dictates.

You bring up something about yourself that I think you've even missed or choose to ignore. You seem content to train with the minimum standard or perceived needs.

4 mags are fine for some things, but not all. You say that you are fairly well trained in the AR, but can shoot on the move well. Your chief complaint is about weight and urban movement. You should really learn to shoot on the move, bear the burden of your basic needs and plan accordingly.

Wearing kit isn't just that, running in it sucks. Moving through a built up area sucks. Climbing any obstacle sucks. It sucks period.

Although situation dependant, a prolonged firefight is as prolonged as you stay engaged. Finish the fight, maneuver, or break contact. Simple and only correct answer I can provide that transcends the full operational spectrum is....move and move as often as tactically sound.

I'm a support nub, but I do pay attention to my job and that of the people that I work for. I don't accept the bear minimum, nor will I allow my guys. There are Soldiers, past and present here that have more trigger time than I. No instance is really ever the same.

I have seen your intro, humble is good. So I'd recommend to you that you use the search function, cut and paste in the thread titles Paslode provided, and read, read, and read again.

**The Reaper** · 07-10-2010, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by flynlead

How much ammo is typically used in a single firefight? Years ago, it was SOP to carry 210 rounds (5.56). I'm sure that today most SF, contractors and others carry at least this much and probably more. In an actual firefight with small numbers of irregular soldiers (Taliban, drug goons, VC, etc.), how many rounds are used by a single operator before it is over?

In a SHTF situation (think LA riots(s)), if forced to bug out of hostile urban territory on foot for 2 or 3 miles, how many 30 round AR magazines would be needed? I have zero body armor, and zero combat experience. I am fairly well trained with a semiauto AR, but can not shoot and move like the Sundance Kid. Instead of a heavy bug out bag and 10 mags, I think it would be better to carry only water and maybe 4 mags. I think in a prolonged firefight I would be long dead before I got to my 5th mag.

Any thoughts on this?

Inauspicious beginning here, Doc.

Either one more round than it takes to defeat your opponents, or as much as it takes for one side to win or the other to quit and/or die.

Your inability to hump the load that you know you may need is a PT problem, not an ammunition management issue. The need for more ammo may be a marksmanship issue. How many zombies do you expect to engage? How long are you going to be alone without resupply in Indian country?

Read the threads indicated. Use the Search button. Do some mission analysis. If you are going to the store in a nice neighborhood to get a gallon of milk, four is probably plenty. If you are trying to fight your way through a combat zone to get somewhere else, seven is probably not enough.

Mission analyis.

Configure basic load for carry. Might be an ammo can with loaded mags in the car, or a vest for foot movement.

Hump it or PT till you can do so and fight, move, and communicate while carrying it all.

Don't assume away necessities unless you are willing to accept the consequences.

And don't start new threads without reading and searching, much less before posting an intro.

TR

Buffalobob · 07-10-2010, 13:06

A basic load was 600 rds of 5.56 of which half was in mags and half in bandoliers, six frags, two smokes. one claymore and six to eight quarts of water.

If bunkers were expected then some humped laws.

If operating in high mountains (cloud cover) or heavily outnumbered and such that we could not risk our lives on not getting an ammo resupply then we would go to a double basic load. With a double basic load and six days of food, packs would run to and over 100#. We only did that once because most of the time mobility was more important than sustained firepower.

The infantry is no place for the lazy. Nor is it for the naive who believe that they will get air support when they need it.

I don't know how much ammo a person would need to shoot it out with some 14 year old boy who is selling pot in the school yard.

Just never had to do that.

HOLLiS · 07-10-2010, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalobob

A basic load was 600 rds of 5.56 of which half was in mags and half in bandoliers, six frags, two smokes. one claymore and six to eight quarts of water.

Could be your age is showing, I carried 35 magazines/700 rounds. 5 frags, two 60 mike mike, water about the same (if we had water) and if 81s were with us, even more. Was it enough? Would have carried more if we could have.

Mutter's ridge 1969.

Nothing was typical.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-11-2010, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

Could be your age is showing, I carried 35 magazines/700 rounds. 5 frags, two 60 mike mike, water about the same (if we had water) and if 81s were with us, even more. Was it enough? Would have carried more if we could have.

Mutter's ridge 1969.

Nothing was typical.

Carry anything to eat?

**Eagle5US** · 07-11-2010, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

Could be your age is showing, I carried 35 magazines/700 rounds. 5 frags, two 60 mike mike, water about the same (if we had water) and if 81s were with us, even more. Was it enough? Would have carried more if we could have.

Mutter's ridge 1969.

Nothing was typical.

Holy COW you must have sounded like a T-62 clanking through the jungala!

Eagle

HOLLiS · 07-11-2010, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Carry anything to eat?

I think the Commandant saved money on us, by not feeding us. In 5 months I went from 165 pounds to 125 pounds. I think the longest we were with out food was about 5 days and 3 days with out water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

Holy COW you must have sounded like a T-62 clanking through the jungala!

Eagle

On ambush one could tell who was coming by the sounds they made. clanking like a t-62 and some chosen cuss words, Marines.

Radio playing, ARVNs

Silence, NVAs or Mr. Charlie

Someone once said there was no difference in us and mules. I stated there was, a Mule would eventually refuse to carry any more.

We would also carry stuff, comm battery, can of ammo, can of gun ammo, case of C's, it was all divided up.

Green Light · 07-10-2010, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by flynlead

. . . How much ammo is typically used in a single firefight?

. . . how many rounds are used by a single operator before it is over?

. . . if forced to bug out of hostile urban territory on foot for 2 or 3 miles,

. . . I have zero body armor,

. . . can not shoot and move like the Sundance Kid

. . . Instead of a heavy bug out bag and 10 mags, I think it would be better to carry only water and maybe 4 mags.

. . . I think in a prolonged firefight I would be long dead before I got to my 5th mag.

Any thoughts on this?

No typical firefight.

Holy cow! Two or three miles??? Are you kidding me?

I've never had body armor when trying to get away from someone.

Ten mags is heavy? Two teams I was on carried a double basic load on our LBJ during long patrols (4-6 days) and another one in our rucks. I don't think anyone ever said that it was too heavy, just the cost of doing business.

We're not operators.

Dead by the 5th magazine? I never planned to be dead, nor did anyone else around me - we're a pretty confident bunch. If you think you're not going to be victorious, then you're going to die and kill everyone else around you. You sound like one of those cheese-eating surrender monkeys (do you speak French?)

Quote:

The infantry is no place for the lazy. Nor is it for the naive who believe that they will get air support when they need it.

That's it in a nutshell, Bob! Great line, great truth.

flynlead · 07-10-2010, 14:15

Thabks for the info. Going to look up these threads. Have a large bug out bag in my car along with a CC permit 92F. If I were 20 I'd think about carrying the 600 rounds, but I'm 48 and though in respectable shape, wouldn't do that now.

I may eat cheese, but I fight to win.

Richard · 07-10-2010, 14:50

Never heard of a 'typical' firefight.

We carried 20x20rd mags or 12x30rd mags on the harness, 1 in the weapon, 20x20rd/15x30rd more in the ruck + grenades, M14 and M18 APMs.

However - YMMV - and so it goes...

Richard's $.02

Green Light · 07-10-2010, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Never heard of a 'typical' firefight.

Great minds think alike.