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Old 07-25-2008, 06:32   #1
JJ_BPK
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Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS

"That the problem with Africa is Africans and that aid won't cure it is a truth that almost everyone skates around. One Compassionate Irish columnist has finally had enough of the prevarications, however, and has spoken out." Hibernia Girl

I have a rather dicey editorial I would like you to read and I would enjoy and encourage your comments.

The writer is Kevin Myers, a well published Irish journalist, currently writing for the Irish Independent. Kevin talks about his experiences in Africa and his thoughts of Africa's future. Kevin is well traveled in Africa, including trips during the famine years in the 80'tys when Bob Geldof was active with the Feed The World campaign. The population of Ethiopia has doubled because of that effort,, and they are still starving. And that is what Kevin talks about...

Kevin's ideas about World population growth are real, they need vocalization. It's a problem we need to get the World to address, because population growth is not just an isolated African problem. Pick any news source in the world and read about immigration "reform" and social welfare..

Warning: The topic(s) as discussed by Kevin may be offensive to those with: Conservative Religious Convictions, Left Leaning Socialist Ideologies, and most anyone with who think their fellow man is not the problem. The rest of us can start to contemplate the inevitable..

Comment: I did not "correct" any of the European spelling.

From Kevin's wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Myers

STYLE: Myers' Irish Times articles were often in contrast to its editorial
position, which led to some conflict with his editors. In early January
2005, the Irish Times refused to publish a column in which he accused the
Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) of responsibility for the Northern
Bank robbery. The column was later published by the Daily Telegraph. He
often advocates support for the United States, though he is sometimes
critical of the foreign policies of the Bush administration. He ultimately
endorsed the 2003 invasion of Iraq. He has praised George W. Bush, but has
also described him as 'mad'. He is frequently critical of anti-war
activists. Myers is skeptical of the viability of multiculturalism and
favours limits on immigration to prevent the growth of racial tension in
Ireland. He has criticised the Catholic Church in many pieces, and favours
the legalisation of prostitution. In recent articles he has been critical of
Islamic fundamentalism and extremism. In his journalism Myers has opposed
the classification of Travellers as an ethnic minority, and has opposed
feminist philosophy and the role of trade unions in setting economic policy.
He has written against the compensation culture and has opposed state
policies towards the Irish language.


Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS, By Kevin Myers,
Thursday, July 24, 2008

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...s-1430428.html

No. It will not do. Even as we see African states refusing to take action
to restore something resembling civilisation in Zimbabwe, the begging bowl
for Ethiopia is being passed around to us, yet again. It is nearly 25 years
since Ethiopia's (and Bob Geldof's) famous Feed The World campaign, and in
that time Ethiopia's population has grown from 33.5 million to 78 million
today.

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic
demographic growth in that country? Where is the logic? There is none. To be
sure, there are two things saying that logic doesn't count. One is my
conscience, and the other is the picture, yet again, of another wide-eyed
child, yet again, gazing, yet again, at the camera, which yet again,
captures the tragedy of . . . Sorry. My conscience has toured this territory
on foot and financially. Unlike most of you, I have been to Ethiopia; like
most of you, I have stumped up the loot to charities to stop starvation
there. The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a
priapic, Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes
him.

There is, no doubt a good argument why we should prolong this predatory
and dysfunctional economic, social and sexual system; but I do not know what
it is. There is, on the other hand, every reason not to write a column like
this. It will win no friends, and will provoke the self-righteous wrath of,
well, the self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never
fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and
its moral superiority. It will also probably enrage some of the finest men
in Irish life, like John O'Shea, of Goal; and the Finucane brothers, men
whom I admire enormously. So be it.

But, please, please, you self-righteously wrathful, spare me mention of
our own Famine, with this or that lazy analogy. There is no comparison.
Within 20 years of the Famine, the Irish population was down by 30pc. Over
the equivalent period, thanks to western food, the Mercedes 10-wheel truck
and the Lockheed Hercules, Ethiopia's has more than doubled.

Alas, that wretched country is not alone in its madness. Somewhere, over
the rainbow, lies Somalia, another fine land of violent, Kalashnikov-toting,
khat-chewing, girl-circumcising, permanently tumescent layabouts. Indeed, we
now have almost an entire continent of sexually hyperactive indigents, with
tens of millions of people who only survive because of help from the outside
world.

This dependency has not stimulated political prudence or commonsense.
Indeed, voodoo idiocy seems to be in the ascendant, with the next president
of South Africa being a firm believer in the efficacy of a little tap water
on the post-coital penis as a sure preventative against infection. Needless
to say, poverty, hunger and societal meltdown have not prevented idiotic
wars involving Tigre, Uganda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea etcetera.

Broad brush-strokes, to be sure. But broad brush-strokes are often the way
that history paints its gaudier, if more decisive, chapters. Japan, China,
Russia, Korea, Poland, Germany, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the 20th
century have endured worse broad brush-strokes than almost any part of
Africa. They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or
investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush
pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

Meanwhile, Africa's peoples are outstripping their resources, and causing
catastrophic ecological degradation. By 2050, the population of Ethiopia
will be 177 million: The equivalent of France, Germany and Benelux today,
but located on the parched and increasingly protein-free wastelands of the
Great Rift Valley.

So, how much sense does it make for us actively to increase the adult
population of what is already a vastly over-populated, environmentally
devastated and economically dependent country? How much morality is there in
saving an Ethiopian child from starvation today, for it to survive to a life
of brutal circumcision, poverty, hunger, violence and sexual abuse,
resulting in another half-dozen such wide-eyed children, with comparably
jolly little lives ahead of them? Of course, it might make you feel better,
which is a prime reason for so much charity. But that is not good enough.

For self-serving generosity has been one of the curses of Africa. It has
sustained political systems which would otherwise have collapsed. It
prolonged the Eritrean-Ethiopian war by nearly a decade. It is inspiring
Bill Gates' programme to rid the continent of malaria, when, in the almost
complete absence of personal self-discipline, that disease is one of the
most efficacious forms of population-control now operating. If his programme
is successful, tens of millions of children who would otherwise have died in
infancy will survive to adulthood, he boasts. Oh good: then what?I know. Let
them all come here. Yes, that's an idea.
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:53   #2
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I think he is one of the few writers I have read who is delivering the unvarnished truth.

Nature is a cruel mistress, and one day, her reckoning will come.

TR
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Old 07-25-2008, 08:01   #3
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I think he's saying what a lot of people want to say. The article makes me slightly uncomfortable, but it does raise some very compelling points.
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Old 07-25-2008, 15:53   #4
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True.
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Old 07-25-2008, 16:02   #5
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I agree wholeheartedly. Some may construe this as "bashing", but the truth hurts. If America was the same way demographically, I would hope that any logical person would concur.
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Old 07-25-2008, 16:35   #6
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Agree 110% with the article and your comments,,, Lets see how far this gets and how many networks pick up this story. I'm betting little to none. Big Brother doesn't like it when the truth comes out.
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:57   #7
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I have to make a comment here, as I fear the gist is sliding precariously and I don't want to be the instigator of something that gets nasty..

I posted this article as a brain stimulator,, Not as an invitation to racial bias..

A person who is bold enough to write an article about Africa, could have just easily picked Mexico, India, China, or any of the dozens of smaller countries experiencing like conditions.

The World has a problem, we are creating more people than this Earth can sustain.

Africa is the visible tip of the spear. It is in the middle of a pervasive and progressive pandemic that can only get worse.

The UN, EU, and rest of the World are trying to treat the symptoms, while completely ignoring the basic cause.

If I am wrong about the follow-up posts, please forgive my anxiety..

This topic is not something I write about lightly..

Thanks
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:52   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK View Post
The World has a problem, we are creating more people than this Earth can sustain.
Sir, I'm glad that you have started the conversation. In addition, your concerns are both wise and well-founded.

I am a rather strong proponent of peak oil theory. Our modern agricultural system is both global and mechanized, with strong dependency on cheap and abundant liquid fuels. The Catton text I referred to earlier suggests that we are, in essence, transforming fossil fuels (crude oil and natural gas) into calories we can consume as food through the agricultural system. There are some indications that we may consume as many as 10 calories of oil for every one calorie of food we eat. The implication is that if the availability of liquid fuels declines - as I believe it will - then the global availability of food will do likewise. In addition, the tendency of newly affluent societies, such as China and India, to consume more meat and dairy products reduces the supply of grain available for the poorer segments of the global population. A key point is that we are in overshoot right now, and have been for decades. If Catton is correct, we are not approaching the problem; rather, we went past the point of no return half-a-century ago. That suggests the correction of overshoot will be profound.

Environmental overshoot is a fancy way of saying what you said. But the implication of overshoot is dieoff. Some believe - and I am among them - that a substantial percentage of the world's population will perish due to famine. Disease, war, and other factors may be the immediate cause of death, but the underlying problem will be too many people for the available resources.

The conversation has occurred in other places, and at other times. In the great majority of cases, some sort of triage strategy comes up. In essence, the discussion focuses on who should survive, and who should not. At this point, emotions tend to be engaged. We (whoever we is) want "our kind", or "the most worthy" (whatever those terms mean) to survive. Those people (this means anyone other than "our kind" or "the most worthy") are invariably less desirable. At that point, discussions tend to heat up. I have the greatest respect for the members of this forum, and so I believe that if the conversation can occur anywhere, it will be here.

In essence, there appear to be three possibilities.

Innovation is one. Global shared sacrifice and power-down is the second. Dieoff, planned or otherwise, is the third.

Innovation has worked since Malthus first observed the problem. Perhaps it will solve the problems. I'm betting it won't. Quite literally betting - I've purchased DBA, which is an ETF that goes up when grain prices increase.

Shared sacrifice, with we in the west adopting a diet largely devoid of meat and dairy products, along with other wrenching changes, is a strategy one sometimes comes across. I don't think human nature will permit such an approach to work, but there is a lot I don't know about human nature.

Dieoff is the third option. Unplanned dieoff, where no one does anything and the situation gets steadily worse in areas that cannot afford significantly higher food prices, seems most likely. This seems to increase the possibility of instability, both within affected areas and globally. The last possibility that I perceive is planned dieoff. By some mechanism, the population of those people (however defined) is pruned, or allowed to decline, for the benefit of the rest of us. That last possibility is the one that often generates rancor.

Dieoff may be rapid or slow, and there are proponents of each viewpoint. Slow dieoff is likely to be quite destructive as people do whatever it takes to survive. Some believe that the end result might be an environment that could support a global population in the hundreds of millions - total. A rapid dieoff would create (perhaps) less damage, but would be more wrenching in the short term.

When one factors in possibilities such as mass migrations of desperate refugees, nuclear blackmail, failed states, terrorism, and other factors, one might be excused for seeing interesting times.

As I mentioned earlier, I very much appreciate the original post. If such issues can be discussed anywhere, it is among the good people and QP's of this forum. And I respectfully suggest it is an important issue to consider, from both the personal and the policy perspectives.
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Old 08-02-2008, 14:08   #9
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The Malthusian line of reasoning is a dangerous one.

The logical progression of this reasoning reduces humans to the level of livestock.

Eventually, the value of a life is a number representing an economic value.
Actuaries become arbiters of life and death.

The slide is already well underway:
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/C...e_is_not_right

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jul/08071705.html

Human life either has dignity apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, or it does not.

Choose carefully.
The lucky among us will one day be old and less useful to society.


Concerning Africa, I am of the opinion that "teach a man to fish" is the best policy.
Human life has diginity, part of that dignity is liberty and self-determination.

Help those willing to help themselves.
However, being an enabler to irresponsible decisions demeans the dignity of a rational, capable adult.

If people knowlingly choose a path for themselves which leads to death, little can be done to stop them.
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Old 08-02-2008, 15:16   #10
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You make a variety of good points, Grateful Citizen.

The first article you posted - the one by Cal Thomas - is interesting, but may well be too optimistic. It mentions the determination by several groups that human life has a value of millions of dollars.

The concepts of overshoot and dieoff, taken to their logical conclusion, implies one must see human numbers not in actuarial terms, but rather as competition for scarce resources. Human life, then, would not have a positive value; rather, each life would represent a negative. Thus, elimination of each life would become a positive. Please note that I do not say I desire or advocate such a position.

Nonetheless, I suspect we are on track toward precisely that state of affairs. Unless a great many leaders choose very wisely, we may well get there. There is historical precedent.
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Old 08-02-2008, 17:01   #11
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First of all I DO NOT have the answer

One point that was made was don't mess with Mother Nature. She has her own way of dealing with over population. She either causes famine, plague, pestilence or war. Any of which lowers the population back to what the land will support. If mother nature has her way, then 500,000 will die of famine and the land is back in balance. We, however, feed those 500,000 and make the land attempt now to support 5,000,000. We do nothing to teach the "land keepers" how to increase their yield, do not assist in conservation, only give until it hurts. Now mother nature has to do something about the not 500,000 but the 5,000,000.

Have we really "saved any" or have we condemned more to death?

Right now our policy of hands off give aways and allowing corrupt idiots to skim 75% off the top for trickle down crumbs is not getting done what needs to be done.

I do not have the answer, I only know that what we are doing is incorrect.

Guy - Something good had to come from your trip to the land of your forefathers. Besides the plane taking you home.

Sorry bro, couldn't resist.
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Old 08-02-2008, 23:04   #12
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Guy - Something good had to come from your trip to the land of your forefathers. Besides the plane taking you home.

Sorry bro, couldn't resist.
The only good I got from Africa was working "side-by-side" with QPs. The rest sucked!

Stay safe.
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