How has being SF or in the Army changed you?

[dennisw]

I've watched my youngest go through the SF pipeline for the last two years, including basic and infantry training, and the transformation is very interesting to say the least. Since he's fairly young, some of the changes can be chalked up to normal maturity, if there is such a thing. However, I have a feeling that most of the changes are related to his training and experience.

For the Quite Professionals and candidates, do you think the SF journey has changed you in any significant manner?

[dave_az]

Looking forward to answer. .

[lksteve]

i've thought about this question often...over the years, it seems to me that the training didn't change me, fundamentally, anymore than a gem cutter changes the nature of a stone he fashions...the training brings forward certain aspects of a person, but underneath, it's the same guy...

i do not believe that anyone can become SF...there are people with the right combination of phsyical and intellectual skills, aptitudes and interests that cannot, should not and will not make it through the training and for the rare few of these folks who do, they do not stay in the business very long...the more mature leave of their own choosing and the posers are sent away...

[QRQ 30]

I agree with 1ksteve. That's why I didn't reply. I believe Special Forces merely fulfilled my destiny from the beginning. Take that as a compliment for your son. If he makes it it means he is made of the right stuff.

BTW: Not making it doesn't necessarily mean failure in life. I don't care for quiters but others just weren't meant to be. Hopefully the selection process does its job and selects the proper candidates.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Agree with both QRQ and lksteve. SF is a commitment and not just a branch. In order for anyone to fullfill this commitment they have to be fully aligned with the physcological, physical, intellectual demands expected of a Special Forces soldier. I really don't see myself as changed from being who I was before I came into the service but I do see myself as being a whole lot better soldier for being associated, challenged, and driven by a sense of not wanting to let down anyone with whom I worked. The motivation was always there but the acquired skill sets associated with mission performance was honed by those with whom and for whom I served. I think that one of the most unique things about Special Forces as a profession at arms, unlike many of the other branches in the service, who you are is what you do whereas in most other professions/jobs/careers what you do is not necessarily who you are.

Jack Moroney

[dennisw]

In hindsight, I should have worded my question more carefully. I like the gem cutter analogy. Peter G. Bourne, MD -- Department of Psychiatry proformed a study of SF soldiers in Vietnam. I found it fascinating. Many of you are probably already familiar with his findings. If not it's at the following website:

www.sfalx.com/bourne/

Some of his observations may relate more to Vietnam then to SF soldiers in general. Again, the members of this board are better suited then any to answer that.

Although my son does not have SF experience, I can see certain characteristics emerging due to the training: self reliance, acute sense of SA and an increased sense of confidence related to problem solving. Also, it appears sleep is not a necessity, just an option. lol

Do you agree with Dr. Bourne? Is he on target?

Also, if we use the gem cutting analogy, how much of the metamophism is related to the training, and how much relates to the team experience?

Without being dissarespectful, I would imagine some folks coming out of the pipeline can be a bit cocky or rough and the team provides the group discipline to polish the stone.

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by dennisw

I've watched my youngest go through the SF pipeline for the last two years, including basic and infantry training, and the transformation is very interesting to say the least. Since he's fairly young, some of the changes can be chalked up to normal maturity, if there is such a thing. However, I have a feeling that most of the changes are related to his training and experience.

For the Quite Professionals and candidates, do you think the SF journey has changed you in any significant manner?

Absolutely. Looking back it's easy to see. As you go through the training process you don't notice it. Every event builds on the previous and makes you better. More experienced. Smarter. One of the popular buzz words is "Stress Innoculation."

Take weight lifting. You couldn't go into the gym the first time and lift 300 pounds...but if you set that as a goal, and go back week after week...you get stronger. You don' notice the improvement from day to day, but if you record your progress and them look backwords...it's easy to see.

How do you get good judgement?

Wisdom

How do you get wisdom?

Experience

How do you get Experience?

Bad Judgement

SF Candidates go through extensive training scenarios so that they can learn from mistakes by practicing so that when they have to do it for real, they already have the experience and judgement to execute correctly and quickly.

These are all good things that the Trainers and the Trainees want to happen.

What you're noticing is that your boy is becoming a man.

[abc_123]

Great observation, WM, about "experience". All of us get that on a daily basis. No matter what your "experience" level, bad judgements are made just the same; and each bad judgement provides a learning experience.

Speaking for self, one of the things that I can say is that the SF experience made me more confident. Or, maybe gave me the OPPORTUNITY to prove to myself those qualities/character traits that I posessed. ...those qualities that were/are still taught to me by my parents.

dennisw, I can't speak for sure what your son was "taught" because that is a function of the person receiving the instruction, however from a 'maturity' and 'experience' standpoint, one thing that SF training will give you is a large amount of both in a compressed timeframe. Of that, i assure you. That your son is walking the path that he is is a testiment to your mentorship/parenting.

Again, from my personal experience.... I had faced adversity/diappointment in my pre-Army life....however, the key event that I can remember (nothing spectacular, but important to me at the time ...) happened during my re-test for the STAR land-navigation exam as part of the SF Qual Course (SFQC). I got misoriented (otherwise knon as 'lost') and lost a very large amount of time. I finally got myself reoriented and proceeded to conclude that I had no chance of completing the course in the alloted time limit and had an internal debate on wether or not I should quit right there. I stopped, drank some water, and decided that, although there was no hope, I shoud continue and try to do my best and at least fail with dignity. (This was probably the lowest point in my life as it was at this time that I saw all my dreams slipping away.... ) Additionally, I saw history repeating itself in that I had, as a cherry Lieutenant prior to 'the Q', ended up being medically dropped from Ranger School....HOWEVER, I knew I could never face my parents (who taught me to never quit and to FINISH any fight that I got myself into) or live with myself if I quit.) So, I started to run, and I ran through the water across Scuba Road, back North along th Bowling Alleys ...knowing that I was going to fail. I got to my second to last point and then the instructor at the point told me (I don't know why... ), that I "Neeed to hurry". So I ran. Maybe not fast, but as fast as I physically could with a ruck on my back and a M16 in my hands, and with all the desperation of a young man chasing his dreams. I got to my attack point, and shot my azimuth to where I thought my last point was and proceeded onward...and eventually came upon my final point wiht an instructor and a bunch of sleeping students sitting around trying to care for their worn-out feet.

SUCCESS! I had made it!... Probably the greatest achievement of my life.

And the NCO instructor said. "What took you so F_ing long?, you only had 30min left. You're the last one. Grab a seat and get some water." Looking back on that, I couldn't have wished for him to say anything more. Internally, I knew I had triumphed, but in the grand scheme of things, I was just another student who had barely made the cutoff.

I didn't LEARN anything that day, however, I AFFIRMED a lot. I had LEARNED a lot from my parents and my experiences as an adolescent, however I hd just AFFIRMED them as a MAN.

To this day, you're going to have to kill me before I'd quit something that I've commited myself to. (BTW, I did end up going back an graduating from the Ranger Course following my graduation from SF Language School). I'm not saying that I'm the best/smartest/fastest/strongest, however I'm not going to embarass my name or the beret that I wear for lack of effort. In anything.

I'm just one of many.... Hope your son joins the ranks.

Good Luck to him!

[21BravoInDaSand]

Originally Posted by abc_123

Great observation, WM, about "experience". All of us get that on a daily basis. No matter what your "experience" level, bad judgements are made just the same; and each bad judgement provides a learning experience.

Speaking for self, one of the things that I can say is that the SF experience made me more confident. Or, maybe gave me the OPPORTUNITY to prove to myself those qualities/character traits that I posessed. ...those qualities that were/are still taught to me by my parents.

dennisw, I can't speak for sure what your son was "taught" because that is a function of the person receiving the instruction, however from a 'maturity' and 'experience' standpoint, one thing that SF training will give you is a large amount of both in a compressed timeframe. Of that, i assure you. That your son is walking the path that he is is a testiment to your mentorship/parenting.

Again, from my personal experience.... I had faced adversity/diappointment in my pre-Army life....however, the key event that I can remember (nothing spectacular, but important to me at the time ...) happened during my re-test for the STAR land-navigation exam as part of the SF Qual Course (SFQC). I got misoriented (otherwise knon as 'lost') and lost a very large amount of time. I finally got myself reoriented and proceeded to conclude that I had no chance of completing the course in the alloted time limit and had an internal debate on wether or not I should quit right there. I stopped, drank some water, and decided that, although there was no hope, I shoud continue and try to do my best and at least fail with dignity. (This was probably the lowest point in my life as it was at this time that I saw all my dreams slipping away.... ) Additionally, I saw history repeating itself in that I had, as a cherry Lieutenant prior to 'the Q', ended up being medically dropped from Ranger School....HOWEVER, I knew I could never face my parents (who taught me to never quit and to FINISH any fight that I got myself into) or live with myself if I quit.) So, I started to run, and I ran through the water across Scuba Road, back North along th Bowling Alleys ...knowing that I was going to fail. I got to my second to last point and then the instructor at the point told me (I don't know why... ), that I "Neeed to hurry". So I ran. Maybe not fast, but as fast as I physically could with a ruck on my back and a M16 in my hands, and with all the desperation of a young man chasing his dreams. I got to my attack point, and shot my azimuth to where I thought my last point was and proceeded onward...and eventually came upon my final point wiht an instructor and a bunch of sleeping students sitting around trying to care for their worn-out feet.

SUCCESS! I had made it!... Probably the greatest achievement of my life.

And the NCO instructor said. "What took you so F_ing long?, you only had 30min left. You're the last one. Grab a seat and get some water." Looking back on that, I couldn't have wished for him to say anything more. Internally, I knew I had triumphed, but in the grand scheme of things, I was just another student who had barely made the cutoff.

I didn't LEARN anything that day, however, I AFFIRMED a lot. I had LEARNED a lot from my parents and my experiences as an adolescent, however I hd just AFFIRMED them as a MAN.

To this day, you're going to have to kill me before I'd quit something that I've commited myself to. (BTW, I did end up going back an graduating from the Ranger Course following my graduation from SF Language School). I'm not saying that I'm the best/smartest/fastest/strongest, however I'm not going to embarass my name or the beret that I wear for lack of effort. In anything.

I'm just one of many.... Hope your son joins the ranks.

Good Luck to him!

Eventhough that post wasn't for me, it's exactly what I needed to hear it right now. Thank you.

[mkpat]

Just wanted to say this thread has been more helpful than anything I've read so far. Great hearing yall's opinion, keep em coming.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by mkpat

Just wanted to say this thread has been more helpful than anything I've read so far. Great hearing yall's opinion, keep em coming.

In all your reading at this site do you remeber ever reading something about making your first post in the intro thread?

This ain't the intro thread. Now toddle off and do what you were told to do.

[dennisw]

Originally Posted by mkpat

Just wanted to say this thread has been more helpful than anything I've read so far. Great hearing yall's opinion, keep em coming.

I have to say some of the responses in this thread are some the most interesting I've read on this forum. I'm looking forward to hearing what some of the new QP members have to say. For the record:

1) One of the mods changed the title of this thread and they need to change it back to what it was originally, because it was always about becoming a SF soldier and not about being in the Army;

2) Some folks have said some interesting things, even poetic., but have not answered the question: Wetdog are you out there?

[Hawkeye06]

Again, from my personal experience.... I had faced adversity/diappointment in my pre-Army life....however, the key event that I can remember (nothing spectacular, but important to me at the time ...) happened during my re-test for the STAR land-navigation exam as part of the SF Qual Course (SFQC). I got misoriented (otherwise knon as 'lost') and lost a very large amount of time. I finally got myself reoriented and proceeded to conclude that I had no chance of completing the course in the alloted time limit and had an internal debate on wether or not I should quit right there. I stopped, drank some water, and decided that, although there was no hope, I shoud continue and try to do my best and at least fail with dignity. (This was probably the lowest point in my life as it was at this time that I saw all my dreams slipping away.... ) Additionally, I saw history repeating itself in that I had, as a cherry Lieutenant prior to 'the Q', ended up being medically dropped from Ranger School....HOWEVER, I knew I could never face my parents (who taught me to never quit and to FINISH any fight that I got myself into) or live with myself if I quit.) So, I started to run, and I ran through the water across Scuba Road, back North along th Bowling Alleys ...knowing that I was going to fail. I got to my second to last point and then the instructor at the point told me (I don't know why... ), that I "Neeed to hurry". So I ran. Maybe not fast, but as fast as I physically could with a ruck on my back and a M16 in my hands, and with all the desperation of a young man chasing his dreams. I got to my attack point, and shot my azimuth to where I thought my last point was and proceeded onward...and eventually came upon my final point wiht an instructor and a bunch of sleeping students sitting around trying to care for their worn-out feet.

SUCCESS! I had made it!... Probably the greatest achievement of my life.

And the NCO instructor said. "What took you so F_ing long?, you only had 30min left. You're the last one. Grab a seat and get some water." Looking back on that, I couldn't have wished for him to say anything more. Internally, I knew I had triumphed, but in the grand scheme of things, I was just another student who had barely made the cutoff.

I didn't LEARN anything that day, however, I AFFIRMED a lot. I had LEARNED a lot from my parents and my experiences as an adolescent, however I hd just AFFIRMED them as a MAN.


Thank you for posting. This speaks to my experiences just a few months back at SFAS. After becoming as some would put it "lost" for quite some time in the early hours of the star exam, I wasnt feeling confident at all. I thought I would not be able to finish with my pace and remaining time due to an injury what the 18D later told me was tendonitis. I was med dropped on that 13th day of SFAS and am haunted by those jackson springs woods determined to go back with all my experience from my 1st attempt back in January (04-15) and find all my star points with time to spare! Thankyou for sharing your experiences I will be thinking of you while im trudging through the woods in the dark as I report to 08-15 this friday

[Scottkimbal]

How has being in SF or being in the Army changed you? What were you like before joining? People tell me the process of joining and participating in the organizations change you but no one is in a position to explain beyond that. I tell them life changes you but it does raise an interesting question. Your prespectives on this will be greatly appreciated.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Scottkimbal

How has being in SF or being in the Army changed you? What were you like before joining? People tell me the process of joining and participating in the organizations change you but no one is in a position to explain beyond that. I tell them life changes you but it does raise an interesting question. Your prespectives on this will be greatly appreciated.

I think you have to understand that SF is a commitment and during the process of assessment and selection we are going to look long and hard at you to determine if you have what it takes to make the commitment we require. In order to have a commitment to anything your own physical and psychological make up has to fall in line with those characteristics that are needed for you to function as a Special Forces Soldier. If you have baggage that you carry that prohibit you from exhibiting those characteristics then you are not going to be able to enter our profession. So what I am basically telling you is that you either have the basic characteristics that we need or you do not and we are not in the business of changing you but training you, developing skill sets that you already have the ability to grasp, perhaps helping you mature and develop those basic building blocks you already posses so that you can perform our missions and work on our teams. The life altering aspects evolving from your time in our profession will happen because of your ability to fullfilling your potential and achieving goals you may never have thought possible while you work with the best any Army has to offer in terms of professional soldiers. That is about as simple as I can make it.