PRC-150?

[Baconcane]

Need to know a little about using the NVIS antenna with the 150?...have the 150 but no amplifier according to what I read it calms to work without amplifier for 200km, any info would help me in hurricane exercises.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Baconcane

Need to know a little about using the NVIS antenna with the 150?...have the 150 but no amplifier according to what I read it calms to work without amplifier for 200km, any info would help me in hurricane exercises.

Was 15 days not long enough for you to read your registration message and comply with the process before posting?

TR

[glebo]

DOnt know off the top of my head what the power output is on a 150. But, if your using the AS-2259 NVIS that came with the prc104, you can get 0-500 miles out of 20 watts. You can also use a 1/4 wave high doublet. (which is pretty much omni-directional for short range). Of course that depends....on how good your freq manager is at selecting the propagated freq's for the time periods that you want to make your shot. Bottom line....you dont need no stinkin' AMPLIFYER!!

[Amato]

Another question to throw onto the 150 subject, can it use SOF ALE or just Mil Standard?

[glebo]

no, the 150 is MIL STD ALE. (Narrows your ALE capability and again, relies on the proficiency of a freq manager) I believe the only radio that we have to do SOF ALE is the 137

[Amato]

Thank you for the clarification.

[DarkWatch]

Originally Posted by Baconcane

Need to know a little about using the NVIS antenna with the 150?...have the 150 but no amplifier according to what I read it calms to work without amplifier for 200km, any info would help me in hurricane exercises.

You have no problem with the 150 for NIVIS. Don't need an amp. Just a good antenna. Hell, I talked voice to Sigonella Italy on voice 5X with a dipole and no amp.

Cut a dipole to freq and mount it about 6 feet above the ground (broad side to the receiving station) for NIVIS. Raise or lower it to adjust QRK.

When in doubt...call the SMRS guys.

[LongWire]

Damn, I hadnt heard anything about this............Looks like its a good system. Harris makes solid stuff!!!!!

[bravo22b]

I am trying to get myself educated on the PRC-150, and HF commo in general. I have already read what I can find on the site, and I have downloaded a bunch of reference material, to include:

• USMC Antenna Handbook
• FM 6-02.53 Tactical Radio Operations
• An article titled: "OPERATIONAL CONCEPT AND PROCEDURES FOR HF RADIO IN THE BRIGADE COMBAT TEAMS"
• An article titled: "AN/PRC-150 HF radio in urban combat"

I have some familiarity with the basic operation of the radio, and have used one successfully in ALE mode this past summer in what I am assuming was ground wave transmission, 5-15 km distance. I am mostly interested in information regarding manpack use for a LRS team, with an eye towards simplicity, ease of use, and minimizing the amount of equipment needed. After all, I will be trying to teach this to my E-3 and E-4 11B's who aren't likely to remember much about antenna theory, but will need to know how to turn the radio on, and make commo. I am also guessing, perhaps incorrectly, that we will be using them mostly for short-medium range commo for the foreseeable future (in training). I am sure I will get some good stuff when I go to RSLC in June, but I like to be prepared.

I have made a first pass at reading through the material, and I have a few questions I am sure someone here can help answer.

FM 6-02.53 talks about using the 10 ft whip as a field expedient NVIS antenna by turning the radio on its side and supporting the end of the whip with an insulator. I have also read about using ground radials to improve the performance of vertical antennas. Will ground radials also help increase the efficiency of the whip when used horizontally as an improvised NVIS antenna, or is the effect lost? And is there any other field expedient that can help increase the efficiency of the whip when used like this?

Also, I am trying to find out if there is any kind of quick reference card for using the 150, something that has the basic programming/usage steps and other basic info like antenna formulas on a GTA card. I have thought about trying to make one myself, but if there is already one out there, it will probably be better than whatever I come up with.

Any information (like a reference card) that has OPSEC issues can be sent to me at my .mil email, which I can PM as necessary.

Thanks in advance.

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by bravo22b

I am trying to get myself educated on the PRC-150, and HF commo in general. I have already read what I can find on the site, and I have downloaded a bunch of reference material, to include:

• USMC Antenna Handbook
• FM 6-02.53 Tactical Radio Operations
• An article titled: "OPERATIONAL CONCEPT AND PROCEDURES FOR HF RADIO IN THE BRIGADE COMBAT TEAMS"
• An article titled: "AN/PRC-150 HF radio in urban combat"

I have some familiarity with the basic operation of the radio, and have used one successfully in ALE mode this past summer in what I am assuming was ground wave transmission, 5-15 km distance. I am mostly interested in information regarding manpack use for a LRS team, with an eye towards simplicity, ease of use, and minimizing the amount of equipment needed. After all, I will be trying to teach this to my E-3 and E-4 11B's who aren't likely to remember much about antenna theory, but will need to know how to turn the radio on, and make commo. I am also guessing, perhaps incorrectly, that we will be using them mostly for short-medium range commo for the foreseeable future (in training). I am sure I will get some good stuff when I go to RSLC in June, but I like to be prepared.

I have made a first pass at reading through the material, and I have a few questions I am sure someone here can help answer.

FM 6-02.53 talks about using the 10 ft whip as a field expedient NVIS antenna by turning the radio on its side and supporting the end of the whip with an insulator. I have also read about using ground radials to improve the performance of vertical antennas. Will ground radials also help increase the efficiency of the whip when used horizontally as an improvised NVIS antenna, or is the effect lost? And is there any other field expedient that can help increase the efficiency of the whip when used like this?

Also, I am trying to find out if there is any kind of quick reference card for using the 150, something that has the basic programming/usage steps and other basic info like antenna formulas on a GTA card. I have thought about trying to make one myself, but if there is already one out there, it will probably be better than whatever I come up with.

Any information (like a reference card) that has OPSEC issues can be sent to me at my .mil email, which I can PM as necessary.

Thanks in advance.

Bravo22...

The characteristic you are talking about for a NVIS effect off the whip is simply changing the orientation of the main lobe. I am sure you have seen diagrams showing how the waves propagate off of the whip. The image usually looks like a large doughnut with the whip in the center. The gap being directly off of the tip of the antenna. Laying the doughnut on its side gives you a vertical radiation which can assist in a NVIS effect. Of course use of a ground may be required in order to really achieve the takeoff angle you are looking for.

Using a counterpoise is helpful in situations where earth-ground is not conducive to the takeoff angle you wish to achieve. Of course all of this is dependent upon proper frequency selection in order to achieve the near-vertical bounce you are looking for. For that reason, NVIS operations tend to be the area where everyone's lunch gets eaten, particularly in that area where the ground wave and sky wave may cause some fading.

If you can not find an instruction card or cheater that someone else has made, simply work the step by step yourself and write it down as you are doing it. When you are done have someone else use only the card and determine if the end result is the same. It should give you something pretty handy as well as something that is tailored specifically to your needs.

Have fun.

R10

[bravo22b]

The characteristic you are talking about for a NVIS effect off the whip is simply changing the orientation of the main lobe. I am sure you have seen diagrams showing how the waves propagate off of the whip. The image usually looks like a large doughnut with the whip in the center. The gap being directly off of the tip of the antenna. Laying the doughnut on its side gives you a vertical radiation which can assist in a NVIS effect. Of course use of a ground may be required in order to really achieve the takeoff angle you are looking for.

Using a counterpoise is helpful in situations where earth-ground is not conducive to the takeoff angle you wish to achieve. Of course all of this is dependent upon proper frequency selection in order to achieve the near-vertical bounce you are looking for. For that reason, NVIS operations tend to be the area where everyone's lunch gets eaten, particularly in that area where the ground wave and sky wave may cause some fading.

Thanks for the reply. I am going to to try to read back what you said in 11B language to make sure I understand.

The radio set comes with a small ground rod and a length of braided copper. My understanding is that this should always be used when practical, but I also understand that while better than nothing, this may or may not be a very suitable ground. In cases when there is a little more time and/or space to get set up, ground radials may help what otherwise might not be a very good ground through the grounding rod, and should help performance of the antenna somewhat. Is it correct that this effect is regardless of the orientation of the antenna?

I guess in my mind I am trying to sort out a logical sequence for trying to establish HF (short-medium range) with the least amount of time and setup. Here is what I am thinking, maybe the fine gentlemen here can tell me if this makes sense.

1. On the move - radio in ruck, whip antenna, no ground other than a grounding tail (mentioned in some of the above referenced articles)
2. At a brief halt - radio stays in ruck, whip antenna, deploy single ground rod
3. Long halt / Hide site - radio out of ruck, whip antenna, grounding radials
4. Long halt / Hide site - radio out of ruck, RF-1941 antenna or field expedient antenna if can't make commo with long whip

Frequency selection will be out of my control, but my assumption in this scenario is using ALE mode where hopefully at least some of the freqs are suitable for NVIS.

And I think I understand about ground wave/sky wave interference - the basic idea being that in the zone where the receiving station gets both signals, they may have a canceling effect.