Guatemala- Ruined by America?

[Dub]

QPs,
A girl in my classes went on a mission trip to Guatemala over spring break. She came back saying how horrible the conditions were and that it was all America's fault, someone obviously told her all this.
Today another girl who went on the same trip published an article in JMU's newspaper reiterating what this girl had told me. Stating that much of the strife there was a result of our support and military advisorship of some Guatamalan faction during the cold war. She states our military training which we provided was put to ill use in Guatemala's civil war.

Here is the article: http://www.thebreeze.org/2007/03-15/op3.html

I'm fairly cynical when I hear about how America is at fault for a country's suffering. So...did America bail on Guatemala or is this another case of some liberal indoctrinating students with hate-america BS?

- Dub

[The Reaper]

I suspect that it is the latter.

We were a lot more active in Central America back when Nicaragua went commie and El Sal had an active insurgency, but we train a lot of poor countries who seem pretty happy to get the training and the dollars.

As far as Guatemala goes, they were concerned about the spreading insurgencies and cracked down pretty hard on the dissidents, but that is not our fault, despite what the Socialist Workers Party would have us believe.

The corruption, concentration of wealth, a high indigenous (Indian) population, and lack of natural resources conspire to keep most of the country impoverished.

Again, another country seeking to blame us to divert attention from their internal problems.

And American college kids will believe anything, especially bad news about their own country.

TR

[Dub]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

And American college kids will believe anything, especially bad news about their own country.

TR

Sad, but it is amazing how many are out there who simply swallow such garbage.

Personally, I find it easier to rationalize how someone who is born into a terrorist / islamist society and is indoctrinated in hate since the day they are born can kill in the name of religion, than I can rationalize how those who grow up in America can become such America-hating-spineless-ignorant-liberals

- Dub

[NousDefionsDoc]

Guatemala is a LATAM gap state - for a lot of reasons. The US does not have a responsibility to Guatemala, we do what is in our own interests.

[Dub]

TR,
I emailed the girl from my class your response, telling her that I was not attacking her, but just wanted to give her a different opinion on the situtation. Also I put in NDD info about gap states. Here is her reply. Which is excellent!

Hey Don,

No worries! I always like to learn more about a subject,
especially hearing opposing viewpoints.

Your first email related many times to the Breeze article
written about Guatemala. I would not even begin to know
whether or not her sources are credible, and I certainly do
not assume all of the accusations that are presented in the
article. During our short walk the other day, there was not
exactly the opportunity to discuss the issue in detail, so I
chose the information that had appeared most shocking to me
on my trip. I should have articulated my opinion more
clearly.

On my trip we learned about several of the factors that the
US Special Forces Soldier discussed in his email
(corruption, wealth distribution, etc.) In addition, we
learned about the lack of a well-established property
system, as well as the lack of motivation among impoverished
inhabitants of Guatemala to improve their conditions (a very
interesting subject if you get a chance to read about it!).
However, I also was able to speak to many Guatemalan
citizens about their perspective on America and American
policies. Granted their opinions will be tainted, just as
the opinions of American citizens may easily be tainted;
however, it definitely opened my eyes to the possibility
that there may be more factors contributing to the current
circumstances in Guatemala than I was aware of.

I completely agree with you on many counts; it always
bothers me when I see people making assumptions about
situations based on minimal or not credible sources.
Therefore, I am embarrassed in the sense that I chose words
that made me come across as America-bashing and believing
solely that America is responsible for the poverty in
Guatemala. However, I am definitely not “simply accepting”
the fact that America is responsible for any of the current
issues in Guatemala and have been constantly researching the
topic since I returned home from spring break.

I am always looking for more information, so thank you again
for sending the information you received! The email
response was very interesting, in addition to that website.
I definitely am interested in hearing any new viewpoints on
the subject if you get any other information.

See ya in class!

[one-zero]

I own a home and have family in 'guate'...and speak from both personal/professional observation of this phenomena of self-loathing from Americans. The majority have no more than transient experience with the LATAM regions or populations which they later starting spouting leftist sound-bites about.

There is an entire sub-culture (industry) in LATAM that feeds off transient US students/travelers and dominates the areas these people are 'herded' within respective countries and the folks they are exposed to...it's usually a function of convenience as the groups provide the entree most Americans lack - Language.

Many feel they are getting an 'authentic' taste of the envronment and indigenous people when in actuality it's a gristmill the locals have had down pat for 20+ years.

As for our QP members (most who speak the language of areas they frequent) - we tend to avoid the above locales like the plague, as do many of the self-respecting citizens of those countries...while everyone loves a good conspiracy in LATAM, when you get to the root causes of failure/success in any given country it comes back to the inhabitants action/inaction regarding cronyism, nepotism, and other forms of corruption (and sheer incompetence) - not a superpower boogeyman like USA, Russia, China....the idiots in Cuba, Venezuela, and perhaps Nicaragua (word is Danny O. has seen the capitalist light - but is just using old FSLN soundbites for votes) have no one to blame but themselves.

As for Guatemala's situation...any gripes there reference USA are throwback ploys used to sucker the same folks that buy Che' T-shirts and attend Cindy Sheehan rallies - no substance.

It's an easy business to get into, and there's fresh meat every semester/summer.

salud,
1-0

[The Reaper]

Dub:

Do you know how many Guatemalans flee Guatemala every year for the US?

I add this only to point out that it is hard for me to accept that if the average Guatemalan actually believed that the US had destroyed his country by training the Army to oppress the population, that they would come here to the source of all evil as they perceive it.

The point your friend raised about the lack of motivation among the indig is valid and frequently observed. I have often wondered why we were there as visitors repairing schools, building clinics, etc. At one such event, I asked my host nation military counterpart why we didn't just provide the paint and brushes and let the parents who were watching us paint their childrens' school do it themselves, he explained that they would just sell the paint and gear in the local marketplace for whatever it would bring. Curious.

Since 1985, I have been to every country in Latin America except for one. Over my career, I have lived in Latin America for more than seven years. I have an undergrad degree in Political Science and a Masters in Military Arts and Sciences with a concentration in History. I have a pretty good background in National Defense as well, from Unconventional Warfare to Foreign Internal Defense. My Spanish is rated at a 3/3 level, the highest a non-native speaker can attain. During my time there, I have walked the streets alone in some poor neighborhoods, interacted with Latin American Presidents and worked directly for US Ambassadors, as well as the most junior soldados in their militaries. I have been responsible for the execution of US military strategy in those countries. I tell you this not to toot my horn, but to establish a basis of credibility against being labeled as "tainted", and to say that I think I know a little bit more about the region than your basic tourist.

The US is not responsible for the strife in that country or that region. The internal policies and problems of those countries are. The training the US provided to the Latin American nations is normally basic FM 7-8 and & 7-10 type operations, includes large blocks of instruction on Human Rights, and none that I am aware of on how to oppress your countrymen. They probably learned that from the Cubans, or some other Marxist, Leninist, or Maoist group.

The worst I have heard said about the US in Guatemala is that some personnel were taught interrogation techniques by US Military Intelligence personnel. I can assure you that anyone captured in the region would MUCH rather be interrogated for months by US personnel than being questioned for a day by the local descendants of the Aztecs or Mayans. I am sure that US "torture" techniques like sleep deprivation or loud music would be very familiiar to most college students.

There is an group of semi-educated people in most foreign countries that exists by blaming the US for all evils there, even if they have been the recipients of large amounts of US foreign aid. They have counterparts in the US (mostly in academia) who make a living by doing the same. A short overseas tour in the service of one's country to see the world from a different perspective is usually enough to correct the blind acceptance of that view.

Best of luck.

TR