Is this true?

09-13-2005, 17:07

Ok well heres the rumor
A buddy of mine has a friend who owns a para ordnance handgun. My buddy was able to put a couple of rounds through it, he says that it was so loud he couldn't hear. This I can understand, but than the kid whos handgun it was said that the noise is about the same as a suppressed M4. This I just can't take myself to believe. My friend told me to get some proof that the M4 was quieter so I am coming to you guys. Whats the real truth here?
Chris

rubberneck · 09-13-2005, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

Ok well heres the rumor
A buddy of mine has a friend who owns a para ordnance handgun. My buddy was able to put a couple of rounds through it, he says that it was so loud he couldn't hear. This I can understand, but than the kid whos handgun it was said that the noise is about the same as a suppressed M4. This I just can't take myself to believe. My friend told me to get some proof that the M4 was quieter so I am coming to you guys. Whats the real truth here?
Chris

The guy who owns the Paraord is an idiot. I copied this from Surefire's website:

Quote:

Sound Science Made Simple.
The design went through several iterations as the sophisticated Danish sound machine told Dueck and Smith precisely what baffle arrangements worked better than others. Sound reduction, he found, was also dependent on atmospheric conditions. "We'd get one reading one day and another the next. Barometric pressure, temperature and humidity were all having an effect," Dueck said. "We had to test a given design a number of times under different conditions to get a meaningful reading."
After finalizing on the optimum design, the noise attenuation was rated at between 27 and 30 decibels (dB), reducing the sound of a 5.56mm to a handclap from an ear-splitting crack.

To appreciate how significant a reduction 30 dB represents, we need to understand how sound is measured. Most noise sources are measured in terms of intensity, or strength of the sound field. The standard unit of measure is 1 dB which is the amount of sound that is barely audible to the average human.

The decibel scale is logarithmic, meaning that each unit is 10 times that of the preceding one. For example, a noise source measuring 70 dB is 10 times as loud as a source measuring 60 dB and 100 times as loud as a source reading 50 dB.

A barely audible whisper measures 10 dB and a speeding express train rates 100 dB, although the train generates 10 billion times as much sound energy. This misleading difference can also be seen in earthquakes using the Richter scale, which is a logarithmic scale like the decibel scale. A magnitude of 5.3 on the Richter scale is a moderate earthquake, while a devastatingly strong earthquake has a magnitude of 6.3. Thus, like sound, a small difference in value actually means a great difference in intensity. "Reducing a gunshot by 30 dB makes it 1,000 times quieter. To put it another way, the sound of the action cycling - just the bolt clattering back and forth - is louder than the round firing," Dueck explained.

"Even a 14-inch barreled M4 can be safely fired indoors without damaging your hearing," the director of the Suppressor Division added. "This is a very significant tactical advantage."

**The Reaper** · 09-13-2005, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubberneck

The guy who owns the Paraord is an idiot. I copied this from Surefire's website:

I know Dueck and Smith.

Listen to them, they know what they are talking about.

Chris, I hate to break this to you, but your friend is an idiot. If your assessment is correct, everything he knows about firearms would fit in an empty .22LR case with room to spare.

TR

**Ambush Master** · 09-13-2005, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I know Dueck and Smith.

Listen to them, they know what they are talking about.

Chris, I hate to break this to you, but your friend is an idiot. If your assessment is correct, everything he knows about firearms would fit in an empty .22LR case with room to spare.

TR

I'd be a wee bit more sarcastic in this statement, "everything he knows about firearms would fit in" ...... the indention in the base of a .22LR cartridge from the firing pin, with room to spare !!!

Later
Martin

Tuukka · 09-14-2005, 04:54

From the Surefire article above.

"To put it another way, the sound of the action cycling - just the bolt clattering back and forth - is louder than the round firing," Dueck explained."

The cycling of the action will not be the loudest element in a suppressed rifle, the supersonic crack of the projectile will be quite more louder.

**The Reaper** · 09-14-2005, 09:18

I think Barry was saying that the muzzle report is less noisy than the weapon functioning, not that the sonic crack is suppressed.

The sound of the sonic wave is perceived differently as well. Unless you are using sub-sonic ammunition, in which case he is correct as quoted.

The point that you bring up is an issue of semantics, not technical expertise.

TR

longtab · 09-18-2005, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I know Dueck and Smith.

I don't know Smith, but Barry and I went to SFAS together. I can see why he put off the Q-Course when he landed the Surfire suppressor division chief job!

09-22-2005, 18:41

Don't know if anyone else saw it but they had the gunny on mail call talk to the guy who helped create the sure fire silencer. Thing is quiet and small. The footage was amazing as was the design behind the silencer. Supposidly the guy has been making silencers since vietnam, anyone know this guy? I tuned in to late to catch his name.
Chris

**The Reaper** · 09-22-2005, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cszakolczai

Don't know if anyone else saw it but they had the gunny on mail call talk to the guy who helped create the sure fire silencer. Thing is quiet and small. The footage was amazing as was the design behind the silencer. Supposidly the guy has been making silencers since vietnam, anyone know this guy? I tuned in to late to catch his name.
Chris

I believe that you are mistaken.

And it is a "suppressor", not a silencer.

TR

Archangel · 09-14-2005, 19:06

Though both suppressors are not included in these tests, I think that you gentlemen might find this chart somewhat informative:

http://silencertests.com/reviews/lis...tby=suppressed

09-15-2005, 13:01

Thanks for postin the chart.
Chris

Smokin Joe · 09-15-2005, 13:29

Chris,

I have it on good authority that you can comfortably talk over the noise produced by an M-4 with a surefire suppressor.

There has been a lot of talk about the SF supressor and I have talked to a few who have shot the SF supressor and they swear by them. These are trusted sources who have always given me straight no b.s. info.

Tell your friend to listen twice as much as he talks because he is making an ass out of himself.

Tuukka · 09-16-2005, 02:41

The clip i linked to was meant for reference to this thread for professional discussion, not to end up in various car forums. So whoever linked it, remove the links.

09-16-2005, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuukka

The clip i linked to was meant for reference to this thread for professional discussion, not to end up in various car forums. So whoever linked it, remove the links.

If necessary, another possibility is to configure your server to only accept clients referrered there from PScom. That will also stop people from accessing the file by copying the url.

It will, obviously, not stop re-hosting of the files.

HTH,
Martin

Smokin Joe · 09-16-2005, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuukka

The clip i linked to was meant for reference to this thread for professional discussion, not to end up in various car forums. So whoever linked it, remove the links.

Tuuka,

My advise would be to move it before some dickhead steals it and posts it on bigboys.com.