05-13-2005, 08:38
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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BRAC List
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Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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05-13-2005, 09:37
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,820
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http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/appendix_c.pdf
Looks pretty bipartisan to me. No real line between Red and Blue gains and losses.
Great day to own property in:
China Lake
Ft Carson
Little Rock AFB
Ft Benning
Eglin AFB
DFAS Indianapolis
Ft Riley
Aberdeen Proving Ground
Ft Meade
Nellis AFB
Ft Bragg (from Pope AFB?)
DSC Colombus, OH
Ft Sill
MCB Quantico
Nav Sta Norfolk
Nav Shipyard Norfolk
Nav Sta Bremerton
Biggest Winners:
Ft Belvoir, +11, 858
Ft. Bliss +11,500
Ft. Benning +9,839
Ft. Sam Houston +9,364
Ft. Meade +5,361
Sucks to be in:
Eilson AFB
Ft Knox
New London
Walter Reed?!?!
Ft McPherson
Great Lakes Nav Sta
DFAS, anywhere but Indy
Portsmouth Nav Shipyard
NAS Brunswick
Ft Monmouth
Cannon AFB
Pope AFB (to Bragg?)
Grand Forks AFB
Brooks City Base, TX
Nav Sta Ingleside, TX
Red River Army Depot
Lackland AFB
Sheppard AFB
Ft Monroe
Ft Eustis
Biggest Losers:
Leased Space in VA -22,925
Overseas -13,500
Sub Base New London -8,460
Walter Reed AMC -5,630
Ft Monmouth -5,272
Ft McPherson -4,131
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-13-2005, 10:14
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#3
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 71
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Kelly Support Center *sigh*
Mom is flipping because all the great deals are going to disappear along with the commissary. Looks like we might have to drive 4 hours now to get our ID cards lol. The town of Oakdale is going to be struggling now, especially since they are recovering from their worst flood in years.
I guess this was long overdue though. The missle defense station there hasn't been in use for years. They converted part of the old Radar Station (looks like the disney ball) into a weight room/Gym.
__________________
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
--Soren Kierkegaard
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Manstein is offline
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05-13-2005, 10:32
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#4
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
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Consolidating DFAS was only a matter of time.
I'm not that familier with how the reserve centers are set up -- are they consolidating?
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lrd is offline
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05-13-2005, 10:40
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,820
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I suspect that they are un/underutilized since the RC reapportionment in the early 90s.
Combat units were transferred from the Reserves to the Guard, and Combat Support/CSS units were supposed to go from the Guard to the Reserves.
Unfortunately, states did not want to lose the support units, especially the ones with disaster relief capability, so they were kept by the Guard.
Now the Army Reserve is much smaller than it used to be, and probably has an excess of facilities.
Just my .02, YMVM.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-13-2005, 10:52
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#6
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
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I was just wondering why a National Guard Reserve Center would be on a Federal BRAC list. I thought a NG facility would be owned by the state.
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lrd is offline
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05-14-2005, 09:07
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Sucks to be in:
Eilson AFB
Ft Knox...
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you forgot to mention Hawthorne NV...of course, even if the base stayed open, it sucks to be in Hawthorne NV...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
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lksteve is offline
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05-14-2005, 10:02
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,820
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lksteve
you forgot to mention Hawthorne NV...of course, even if the base stayed open, it sucks to be in Hawthorne NV...
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Actually, Hawthorne is pretty neat.
Great place for practicing high angle shooting, as LR 1947 can attest.
The thing that concerns me is that in consideration of a small savings over time, and a large expense in cleaning up and returning bases, we lose the ability to expand in the event of a major future requirement.
Can you imagine having to buy land for and build bases today like we did in WW II? The environmental impact studies alone would take forever.
We also lose the exposure these bases provide for positive impact on the communities. Many kids today have never seen a servicemenber in real life, let alone had one for a neighbor, a coach, etc.
Some of these decisions make no sense at all. Realigning Pope AFB and McChord AFB, two of the bases that support Army installations and their rapid deployments? Moving an SFG from one of the largest Army bases in the world, home of USASOC and the SF Schoolhouse to go to an AF base with no real infrastructure to support SF training or deployment requirements? I guess AFSOC will finally have a real FID capability. Looks like some pretty stupid decisions to me.
Finally, we further concentrate our resources in fewer and fewer baskets, making targeting much easier for those who would oppose us.
I would favor mothballing and realigning bases, with no closure. That preserves the resources, removes the cost of clean-ups, and allows for a return if future requirements arise.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-14-2005, 14:42
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Actually, Hawthorne is pretty neat.
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ssshhhh...i actually like it around there...just hope the C*lif*rnians don't find it...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Great place for practicing high angle shooting, as LR 1947 can attest.
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in my mind, while lacking a WalMart, Starbucks and other amenities of contemporary civilization, it would be a hell of a place to soldier...nothing for miles and miles, but miles and miles..
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
The thing that concerns me is that in consideration of a small savings over time, and a large expense in cleaning up and returning bases, we lose the ability to expand in the event of a major future requirement.
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well, it seems our politicos are smug in the fact that DS, OEF, OIF and others have been handled without having to cancel a World Series, Stanley Cup (the sports did that themselves), we're not rationing aspartame, sugar or gasoline at home and for the most part, all of these endeavors haven't really disrupted life in suburbia...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Can you imagine having to buy land for and build bases today like we did in WW II? The environmental impact studies alone would take forever.
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three years for a minor subdivision...probably 103 years for a military installation...land values in western NV and eastern CA have doubled in the last 5 years...160 acres, fair market value, runs around $1M...you'd need probably 2560 acres for a DZ the size of Sicily, so thats $16M...an artillery impact area could be a real problem...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Finally, we further concentrate our resources in fewer and fewer baskets, making targeting much easier for those who would oppose us.
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this is the part that strikes me as shear lunacy...idiotic, almost...almost as idiotic as the "peace dividend" we derived from ending the Cold War...do you recall the White Paper circulated by DoD around Summer of 1992 identifying defense priorities for the coming years? wish i still had that lying around somewhere...unfortunately, it doesn't reflect well on our politicians ability to prepare for the future...i wonder if anyone ever thought about that? let's close down all but four or five Army posts, leave the same number of Air Force bases and a couple of Naval Yards...Pearl Harbor ring a bell top these schmucks?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I would favor mothballing and realigning bases, with no closure. That preserves the resources, removes the cost of clean-ups, and allows for a return if future requirements arise.
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this reasoning has to be fundamentally flawed...i am in complete agreement with it...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
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lksteve is offline
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05-13-2005, 10:47
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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BRAC List
The RC is more of a realginment.
BMT
__________________
Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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05-13-2005, 10:57
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,820
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BMT
The RC is more of a realginment.
BMT
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Click on my link above and look at the numbers.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-13-2005, 11:59
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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BRAC List
http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/vol_...s_1_and_2.html
Here is the whole ball of Wax!! Hope you have a high speed ISP connection.
BMT
__________________
Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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05-13-2005, 12:05
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,952
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I do.
7th Group to Eglin AFB.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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05-13-2005, 12:07
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#14
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,952
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Fort Bragg, NC
Recommendation: Realign Fort Bragg, NC, by relocating the 7th Special Forces Group (SFG) to Eglin AFB, FL, and by activating the 4th Brigade Combat Team (BCT), 82d Airborne Division and relocating European-based forces to Fort Bragg, NC.
Justification: This recommendation co-locates Army Special Operation Forces with Air Force Special Operations Forces at Eglin AFB, activates the 4th BCT of the 82nd Airborne Division and relocates Combat Service Support units to Fort Bragg from Europe to support the Army modular force transformation. This realignment and activation of forces enhances military value and training capabilities by locating Special Operations Forces (SOF) in locations that best support Joint specialized training needs, and by creating needed space for the additional brigade at Fort Bragg. This recommendation is consistent with and supports the Army’s Force Structure Plan submitted with the FY 06 budget, and provides the necessary capacity and capability, including surge, to support the units affected by this action.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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05-13-2005, 12:29
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,820
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Guess we are going to be bitches for the AF.
One lone SF COL in charge of an SFG on an installation with a USAF LTG. How long will that work? Post support year round, here we come!
Where will the ARSOF support facilities, ranges, shoothouses, CIF, etc. be located?
Glad that this will free up space on Bragg for the 4th BDE of the 82nd. Maybe they will put the Brigade in the 7th SFGA area and barracks?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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