06-26-2012, 19:44
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#1
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,374
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$5Billion CAMO SNAFU
I knew they were spending a ton of money researching camo...but $5 BILLION?
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/06...ge-fiasco-1-5/
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"If one day you decide to know yourself...you'll have to choose the warrior path...You'll reach the darkness of your spirit.... Then, if you overcome your fears....You will know who you are."
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Snaquebite is offline
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06-26-2012, 19:47
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#2
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Here's the problem...
“It got into political hands before the soldiers ever got the uniforms,” said Cheryl Stewardson, a textile technologist at the Army research center in Natick, Mass., where most of the armed forces camouflage patterns are made.
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Dusty is offline
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06-26-2012, 19:52
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Makes me glad I was of the OG-107 jungle fatigues era at $25 per set. 
Richard 
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Richard is offline
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06-26-2012, 20:23
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Up in a Mountain Patrol Base, away-away / provides-provides and defendable for a short period of time
Posts: 543
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Small piece of trivia.... ERDL (the original woodland) was developed around 1948ish. The military only issued it to recon units in RVN because they knew then that it was only marginally better than OD green. Camo uniforms are more about morale than hiding soldiers...... Wear what the indig are wearing and issue non-special folks green or tan to save cash.......
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bubba is offline
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06-27-2012, 23:35
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#5
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Utah
Posts: 153
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Brand identity? Good Lord. I'm not naive enough to think that each branch doesn't wants to have pride in their unique appearance, but letting brand identity trump soldier survivability is just plain wrong. 
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"I will find a way, or make one."
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aegisnavy is offline
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06-28-2012, 14:02
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#6
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,482
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Universial Geometric Logic Pattern
Tactical Gear and Military Clothing News, a blog, has posted a reply to the article linked in the OP, as well as other published reports that are critical of the UCP pattern and the process by which it was developed. Source is " here."
Quote:
Top Ten Inaccuracies in UCP Camouflage Reporting
We have taken great strides to cover the US Army Camouflage Improvement Effort with complete accuracy to the facts presented by PEO Soldier, Natick Soldier Systems, associated departments, and reputable media outlets with solid sources. However, the mainstream media outside the defense industry has taken the story and ran with it presenting a vast array of misleading headlines and blatant inaccuracies similar to what you would see in some goofy forum post that has gone off the rails.
While the history of the Universal Camouflage Pattern is murky from the omission of certain key factors leading to its adoption by the Army as the central means of concealment, there are plenty of facts on record to get the story straight and not turn assumptions into absolute policy. These articles are already being quoted in Wikipedia, which is always suspect as an information resource, but is also at the top of any search results given the legitimacy heaped on it by the masses.
We have taken a total of ten headlines or claims that we found lacking in accuracy or substance given the actual information that is available and explain why we feel it is misleading or downright wrong in respect to the overall conversation as to what the US Army did or is trying to do in regard to their camouflage improvement efforts.
<<SNIP>>
4. $5 Billion Camo SNAFU
In hindsight the camouflage developed and given the moniker UCP has turned into a literal joke. It has proven ineffective in testing. Nonetheless uniforms and gear in the camouflage cost money. This is a sunk cost which has gone to good use. Even if it has not provided proper concealment, there is still utility in the wear of the uniform. MultiCam has proven to be an effective pattern in Afghanistan and if it was originally chosen over UCP, the Army could have decided to opt for different camouflage patterns anyway to meet the needs of multiple environments. This is what they are doing with the latest solicitation.
If they were not going by the criteria to find different patterns for multiple environments, the decision would be a simple switch to MultiCam, which already has plenty of funding invested. Obviously you can't go back in time and kill this ugly butterfly, but to throw out a $5 Billion dollar figure as being a complete waste is quite inflammatory, especially when the Department of Defense has plenty of other projects that are burning cash to keep the Pentagon warm. In the scheme of things $5 Billion is a drop in the bucket for a force of over 1 Million when you include the National Guard and Reserve.
<<SNIP>>
We guess the moral to this story is to stick with reputable defense industry news sources when it comes to getting your information on camouflage developments. We try to bring forth worthwhile topics in this regard along with factual information. We find Soldier Systems Daily, Strike-Hold!, and Kitup! to be the best in making sure they get their facts straight before reporting any details.
<<SNIP>>
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In other words, $5 billion is not a big deal because soldiers wearing camouflage uniforms with a pattern that does not make them significantly more concealable is better than soldiers not wearing any uniforms at all, and, the Pentagon has wasted money on more expensive projects.
Last edited by Sigaba; 08-07-2012 at 16:57.
Reason: Clean up a typo.
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Sigaba is offline
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06-26-2012, 21:51
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#7
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Guest
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They were great, especially the 5 sets of Type 1's that I sold on ebay for $500 - 600 a pop!
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06-27-2012, 04:24
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH
They were great, especially the 5 sets of Type 1's that I sold on ebay for $500 - 600 a pop! |
I donated all mine to the Salvation Army in the 80t's. Guess I missed an opportunity?? 
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JJ_BPK is offline
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06-27-2012, 07:14
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#9
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,086
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LOL....but sad....
Quote:
It’s worth noting that, flawed as it was, the universal pattern did solve the problem of mismatched gear, said Eric Graves, editor of the military gear publication Soldier Systems Daily, adding that the pattern also gave soldiers a new-looking uniform that clearly identified the Army brand.
“Brand identity trumped camouflage utility,” Graves said. “That’s what this really comes down to: ‘We can’t allow the Marine Corps to look more cool than the Army.’ ”
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Daniel
GM1 USNR (RET)
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Streck-Fu is offline
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06-28-2012, 21:34
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,209
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I still have one of my original, first issue, tops from back in the 80's. I never wore it so it is still in mint condition. Funny thing, though. It seems to have shrunk because I can't button it closed.
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TOMAHAWK9521 is offline
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06-28-2012, 22:07
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#11
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BANNED USER
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC. Will be moving to PA soon.
Posts: 10
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You know they have optical camo that makes you practically invisible. I bet that is factored into the budget too, but people don't think about that. This is why I am best I think way outside the box. I am also very well informed. I need to get selected already lol.
Congratulations! You made selection - you've been selected to return to the world of Wii-warriors. Stay safe. Richard
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Shalashaska is offline
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06-28-2012, 22:12
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalashaska
You know they have optical camo that makes you practically invisible. I bet that is factored into the budget too, but people don't think about that. This is why I am best I think way outside the box. I am also very well informed. I need to get selected already lol.
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You are not a very clever troll.
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SF-TX is offline
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06-28-2012, 22:17
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Angel Gate
Posts: 316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalashaska
You know they have optical camo that makes you practically invisible. I bet that is factored into the budget too, but people don't think about that. This is why I am best I think way outside the box. I am also very well informed. I need to get selected already lol.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!
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BrianH is offline
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06-29-2012, 08:24
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 11 miles from Dove Creek, Colorady
Posts: 3,924
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You'd think that for 5 billion bucks they could have come up with a man-portable cloaking device. 
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Utah Bob is offline
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06-29-2012, 20:21
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,835
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It comes down to about $5,000 per soldier.
That would include uniforms, TA 50 like vests, Goretex, field gear, pretty much anything that was Woodland or DCU pattern that we had to change to ACU camo.
IMHO, a jungle fatigue uniform in multicam would have been tremendously better. Hell, the DCUs and BDUs were better uniforms and better camo.
TR
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