Be Prepared

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Plutarch

It must be an internal problem with the phone. When I tried to power down, it locked up on the lit up 'powering off, goodbye' screen. I can't turn it off or on now.

Oh well, I can use it a nightlight till the battery dies I guess. Off to the phone store tomorrow. I'll look into the Vonage option also, thank you.

Have you pulled the battery, and let it sit for a few minutes before reinstalling the battery and powering up again?

TR

[Plutarch]

Yes sir. It went back to appearing operational, but not functioning. Odd. The young man at the Verizon store said they would have to send it off.

Fortunately, I get a free phone every two years, so I took a new phone instead. The old phone will go into the used electronics graveyard box in my closet.

I am also considering the various radio options, as an alternative way of keeping in touch with family in an emergency.

[JoeyB]

Gentlemen
Iv been looking through the various battery/electronic sites I could find with no luck..
Im looking for a solar battery charger for AA and 123's at a miimum.
Thanks

[The Reaper]

I picked up a couple of solar panels off ebay.

The truth is that the portable ones do not put out much of a charge.

If you needed a roll up type for portability, they tend to be expensive.

The larger, fixed size could be placed in a home window or a car.

Just do your math on the output.

TR

[BryanK]

Originally posted by JoeyB:
Gentlemen
I've been looking through the various battery/electronic sites I could find with no luck..
I'm looking for a solar battery charger for AA and 123's at a minimum.
Thanks

I have an email sent to one of the companies here:
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...rea=product_en
If I hear back from them with a good supplier contact I will post it. These seem to be a good way to go as well:
http://www.solio.com/charger/

[JoeyB]

Thanks TR
Ill check Ebay. One for a vehicle would work

[TF Kilo]

Here's my scenario:

Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear.

My current templated solution to this problem is a 3 layer system.

Vest, either molle or some variant thereof that can fit over armor if necessitated
Assault pack, to augment what the vest can't carry due to size/weight
Vehicle, quickly loaded with duffles/pelicans/containers for ease of loading and expediency.

My intent is to keep the vest to 15 lbs or so if possible, no more than 20. The assault pack/backpack can go further, 55 lbs max preferably to keep some ease of mobility (although intestinal fortitude goes a long way I'm not in the stellar shape I once was, and the wife has to carry the same basic load)

The vest is intended to be able to stand alone by itself for up to 3 days given an abundance of water (tons of good rivers, lakes, etc to resupply from up here) available. Movement with it on should theoretically be limited to 5 km from wherever we set up shop at if we have to use 'the evac plan', the movement will be for gathering supplies for shelter and augmenting our available food with game we take.

My current vest loadout that I've thought up through reading up in various locations, primarily here:

Hk Pistol in holster on right side

In pouches on front of vest

winter nomex gloves
sharpening stone
compass
100$ in 10's
alcohol pens
leatherman
LED flashlight w/ spare batteries
strobe w/ spare batteries
chemlites
GPS w/ spare batteries
Yaesu VS-7 Ham radio (tiny little unit) with rechargable battery and AA battery pack w/ spare AA's
Notepad
Map of templated area of operation
2x Kerlex
4x Emergency Trauma Dressing (isralie)
Betadyne in a unbreakable bottle
NPA x2
Fishing line, monofiliment and salmon line
Hooks for most common types of fish
Lighter
Magnesium bar
Emergency Matches
Cotton balls + Vaseline in film case
Tin Foil
Trioxane bars
Iodine Tablets
6 AR mags
4 HK mags
sewing kit

Sheath knife

back of vest
2 qt w/ cover, empty, 2 bottles of water in pouch with 2 qt for immediate water

Buttpack w/
poncho and liner
6x mainstay ration bars

inside vest or woven into vest
survival blanket
vs17 panel
550 cord
100mph tape
electrical tape
flexcuffs

To explain some of the kit...

Ammunition falls into survival by simple reasoning of Hunting/Gathering plus personal protection. I can drop 3 of the mags and leave an empty pouch for taking the mags out of a pack if it boils down to weight.

The Radio is wideband recieve capable, TV, AM/FM, CB, Shortwave. It'll transmit on most frequencies, HAM bands (144/220/440) best however. Most Ham repeaters and hams period strive to make their commo gear standalone and work off the grid, all the repeaters in the area are grid tied in but have battery/solar backups and some are straight off-the-grid and have been for some time. Either way it's S/A and can be augmented as necessary by charging off the vehicle (our vehicle is getting double 12v charging panels for the roof to ensure milimal electrical power)

Obviously the navigation gear is a good survival thing to have, and I have the means and time to select an area I know I can get to and be able to be far enough away that we'll be by ourselves but not be too far if things are not that bad after all.

First aid gear is minimal, we have a larger box for the vehicle that carries a good medbag's worth of gear.

The mainstay rations aren't something you'd want to live on for an extended period but they are good enough for 3 days, small, light, and no cooking required. 1200 calories per.

Flexcuffs, 550, tape, all good for tying together stuff for a shelter or repairs to various things that are necessitated.

Strobe, chemlites, vs17, flashlight... signaling, maneuvering, marking and also use as part of a shelter if it's an emergency but it's not a hide from people type emergency. Definately easier to find a hooch in the woods if it has a VS17 panel as part of the roof, it'll get a SAR bird to take a closer look at least.

Firestarting.. I have a bunch of stuff in here for it specifically since the vest itself wouldn't exactly be enough to survive in 0 degree weather. The poncho and liner would augment already-worn clothing though. I might look into one of the thinsulate warmer poncho liners, or see if 2 could be crammed into the pouch.


I would appreciate a critique of what I currently have templated for contents of the vests, I'll figure out then post up the packs and vehicular gear as I decide what's best for what I have to work with in this area.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by TF Kilo

Here's my scenario:

Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear....

Why are you on the run, where are you headed, and what do you plan to do when you get there? To evaluate your equipment would require more info for a good mission analysis.

I would say that a lot of your needs would be seasonal. An insect headnet will be of limited value in the winter, but might be very nice to have in the summer there.

A strobe is good if friendlies are looking for you at night by air, otherwise, I do not see why you would want to hump one.

What threat would necessitate wearing body armor, and taking on the additional weight of an item of very limited value for wilderness survival?

You seem to be pretty well armed for two-legged engagements, but not so much for large predators. Are you out to survive, or to run and gun?

Not trying to be nosy, but your layout seems odd for a survival scenario. Probably about right if you are on the run from the law.

Just a few casual obervations to start off with.

TR

[TF Kilo]

On the run from/dealing with (choose one or more):

Natural Disaster
breakdown of society
Broken down vehicle while off the road system
Democratic Party Rights Impingement

The desire to be able to fit it over body armor is for issue #2 & #4 but upon safe arrival at our chosen area of relocation up here, it'd be dropped in the vehicle since there really wouldn't be much but moose, caribou, and black/griz bear out in that area. So, it'd just have to 'work', not be perfect and expected for long duration utilization.

Regardless of the occassion, my intent is to move about 100-200 miles to one of our selected relocation sites and basically hooch up there until things blow over, whatever they are.

I've picked out a few areas that are relatively easy to get to with my current vehicle, reasonably close to water, and would have minimal effects from ashfall, no effects from tsunamis, and would be significantly better to be at if there was any manmade disasters in the region. They're also nice to camp at


With regards to the gear,

It does look like it's a run-and-gun setup, but that's because of the gear we have typically stashed in our vehicles due to my line of work. Besides, .223 isn't exactly a spectacular round for putting down large game although it's legal to do so considering it IS a centerfire rifle cartridge...

I might relegate more ammunition to the pack or the vehicles. When I actually start filling the vests up with gear the only major concern will be items of utility and the pistol ammo. If the vests weigh 15 lbs or so after all the gear, not including pistol itself, then I'll just put pouches on there for mags just in case and keep them elsewhere. I am also willing to drop to 2 spare mags for pistol if it is required... remember I was 11B, I'm used to ammunition always being a friend

A headnet will be more of a seasonal item and will end up being tossed in the backpack since bi-annually we'd be checking gear and swapping out stuff in the backpacks for more specialized summer/winter gear. I do like the headnet idea though, because a headnet doesn't run out, leak, or go dry like bug juice... or smell.

Although there's more law enforcement aircraft up here, than in any other state, you might be right with regards to the strobe. Probably will be a vehicle pack item more than an individual kit item.

I appreciate the help, I would like to get the loadout right before I go out and start buying stuff.

[Pete]

No cooking pot or canteen cup?

Large plastic lawn leaf bag? Don't take up diddily for space or weight but has a great number of uses - mostly in the rain.

[Diablo Blanco]

Originally Posted by JoeyB

Gentlemen
Iv been looking through the various battery/electronic sites I could find with no luck..
Im looking for a solar battery charger for AA and 123's at a miimum.
Thanks

JoeyB I had this same search last year as I was hoping to save a ton of money on rechargeable 123's for my surefire, etc. Truth is the rechargeable 123s don't have the amps for lighting use. If you are using them for electronics be sure the 'mah' are within range before you purchase a system/solution

[Diablo Blanco]

TF Kilo

Things I would lose completely from your list
* alcohol pens (how do these extend your survivability?)
* strobe light (most LED flash lights, headlamps have a strobe function now)


Things I would substitute
* vs17 panel and survival blanket for a couple of heatsheets
* flexcuffs (if you take a prisoner, you have to take care of them) for zip ties of various sizes, for fixin stuff. Plus if you ABSOLUTELY need to take a prisoner you still have zip ties
* sharpening stone for a Redi Edge dog tag sized sharpener
* 100$ in 10's for $200 in 10's, 5's, 1's and 50 cent and 1 dollar coins
* iodine tablets for Katadyn MicroPur tablets

What I would add
* a bit more food, what if your vehicle breaks down and you need to walk. Calculate your daily caloric requirements while walking the distance and add that plus 30% to your kit.
* a MIOX purifier (thanks TR) worth more than it's weight in gold. Read the instructions and practice with it before you need it.
* super glue and JB Weld - to complete your tool box
* an AMK ultralight .3 or .5 medical kit. They're small enough to not bother you on your vest
* an AMK DR Survival kit (about $30) can easily fit in your pocket should you need to leave your vest
* soap of some kind, little squeeze bottle

A vest I would suggest: The Camelbak Delta V for your kit. It has molle/pals webbing. A bladder, adjustable height and 4 inside pocket/pouches (2 with velcro 2 with zippers) to hold all your smaller items.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by TF Kilo

Here's my scenario:

Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear.

My current templated solution to this problem is a 3 layer system.

Vest, either molle or some variant thereof that can fit over armor if necessitated
Assault pack, to augment what the vest can't carry due to size/weight
Vehicle, quickly loaded with duffles/pelicans/containers for ease of loading and expediency.

My intent is to keep the vest to 15 lbs or so if possible, no more than 20. The assault pack/backpack can go further, 55 lbs max preferably to keep some ease of mobility (although intestinal fortitude goes a long way I'm not in the stellar shape I once was, and the wife has to carry the same basic load)

The vest is intended to be able to stand alone by itself for up to 3 days given an abundance of water (tons of good rivers, lakes, etc to resupply from up here) available. Movement with it on should theoretically be limited to 5 km from wherever we set up shop at if we have to use 'the evac plan', the movement will be for gathering supplies for shelter and augmenting our available food with game we take.

My current vest loadout that I've thought up through reading up in various locations, primarily here:

Hk Pistol in holster on right side

In pouches on front of vest

winter nomex gloves
sharpening stone
compass
100$ in 10's
alcohol pens
leatherman
LED flashlight w/ spare batteries
strobe w/ spare batteries
chemlites
GPS w/ spare batteries
Yaesu VS-7 Ham radio (tiny little unit) with rechargable battery and AA battery pack w/ spare AA's
Notepad
Map of templated area of operation
2x Kerlex
4x Emergency Trauma Dressing (isralie)
Betadyne in a unbreakable bottle
NPA x2
Fishing line, monofiliment and salmon line
Hooks for most common types of fish
Lighter
Magnesium bar
Emergency Matches
Cotton balls + Vaseline in film case
Tin Foil
Trioxane bars
Iodine Tablets
6 AR mags
4 HK mags
sewing kit

Sheath knife

back of vest
2 qt w/ cover, empty, 2 bottles of water in pouch with 2 qt for immediate water

Buttpack w/
poncho and liner
6x mainstay ration bars

inside vest or woven into vest
survival blanket
vs17 panel
550 cord
100mph tape
electrical tape
flexcuffs

To explain some of the kit...

Ammunition falls into survival by simple reasoning of Hunting/Gathering plus personal protection. I can drop 3 of the mags and leave an empty pouch for taking the mags out of a pack if it boils down to weight.

The Radio is wideband recieve capable, TV, AM/FM, CB, Shortwave. It'll transmit on most frequencies, HAM bands (144/220/440) best however. Most Ham repeaters and hams period strive to make their commo gear standalone and work off the grid, all the repeaters in the area are grid tied in but have battery/solar backups and some are straight off-the-grid and have been for some time. Either way it's S/A and can be augmented as necessary by charging off the vehicle (our vehicle is getting double 12v charging panels for the roof to ensure milimal electrical power)

Obviously the navigation gear is a good survival thing to have, and I have the means and time to select an area I know I can get to and be able to be far enough away that we'll be by ourselves but not be too far if things are not that bad after all.

First aid gear is minimal, we have a larger box for the vehicle that carries a good medbag's worth of gear.

The mainstay rations aren't something you'd want to live on for an extended period but they are good enough for 3 days, small, light, and no cooking required. 1200 calories per.

Flexcuffs, 550, tape, all good for tying together stuff for a shelter or repairs to various things that are necessitated.

Strobe, chemlites, vs17, flashlight... signaling, maneuvering, marking and also use as part of a shelter if it's an emergency but it's not a hide from people type emergency. Definately easier to find a hooch in the woods if it has a VS17 panel as part of the roof, it'll get a SAR bird to take a closer look at least.

Firestarting.. I have a bunch of stuff in here for it specifically since the vest itself wouldn't exactly be enough to survive in 0 degree weather. The poncho and liner would augment already-worn clothing though. I might look into one of the thinsulate warmer poncho liners, or see if 2 could be crammed into the pouch.


I would appreciate a critique of what I currently have templated for contents of the vests, I'll figure out then post up the packs and vehicular gear as I decide what's best for what I have to work with in this area.

It looks to me like you are trying to operate tactically and below the radar till you want to be picked up, then go active and be rescued (or at least have that capability).

What do you estimate the odds to be of you implementing this plan?

What will the lead time for implementation of this be? Do you forsee needing to move out in an hour or less, or do you anticipate having a few days?

What are you looking to buy or add that you do not have on hand and in stock right now?

Your analysis seems to be light on planning and logic, but maybe you have done due diligence without articulating it to my understanding. It does look, at least to my initial opinion, like a gear collection rather than an integrated list supporting a plan.

I have never been to Wasila, but I would imagine that once you leave the city limits, you are not likely to encounter anyone else on your 100-200 mile trek to your retreat destination. OTOH, I would imagine the odds of an encounter with large game or predators to be significantly higher. For that reason, since there are two people packing the gear and hardware, I would consider dropping one of the M-4s for either a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, a heavy lever action rifle like a .45-70, or a heavy bolt action rifle (.308 or larger). If you are attacked by anyone, they are most likely to be in pistol range, the second M-4 seems to me to be overkill, unless you are being pursued by a platoon or a zombie army.

Vehicle mobility is going to be key, I would focus on making sure that I had plenty of fuel and self-extraction capability at all times. The goal is to get to the retreat, not to dig in and play Alamo with the living dead while en route. You should be able to avoid most situations before you get into them. Remember that you never have to run from a fight if you start walking away soon enough. You need to arrive at your ENDEX time line with sufficient fuel and vehicle mobility to drive back to civilization as well, unless you plan on rucking home.

Secondary to vehicle mobility is foot mobility. I would say that in your location, cross-country skis or snowshoes may be a necessity. You will need to be sure that you have good boots available at all times as well and maintain yourselves in top physical condition.

Next is going to be shelter. Hopefully, there is some sort of stocked cabin or facility at your destination, For the movement phase, if your vehicle becomes immobilized, and you have to hoof it, you are going to be spending some nights out in the boonies in what could be a pretty inhospitable area, depending on METT-TC. That will require a tent and some good bags, not a space blanket or woobie.

Fire is normally included in shelter, but if you are worried about pursuers, you may not want to be lighting up any large blazes. You seem to have covered several alternative firemaking methods, that is good. Hope there is ample combustible fuel when you need it. I would feel better with a good multi-fuel cooking stove.

If you are planning on building field expedient shelters or harvesting large game, a small axe would be pretty close to a necessity, and a folding saw would be handy as well.

You are looking at several days of hard rucking, possibly on skis or snowshoes to move 100-200 miles on foot, possibly as much as 2 weeks, even if the weather is clear throughout the period for daylight movement. 3600 calories each is not going to be enough, especially if you are hoofing it. You should develop a feeding plan with a couple of weeks of freeze dried rations and cooking gear. That way, if you can supplement your rations with wild game, you can at least prepare it in some manner other than roasting everything. Baked fish, for the 10th day, is probably going to get old.

There are a number of other equipment issues, but I would say that you are prepared, if you are going to move during the few months when the weather is warm and conditions are optimal. In general, I think you are thinking too much like a soldier and not enough like a camper or Boy Scout. As I am sure you are aware, the weather and terrain can kill you as thoroughly as an enemy with a weapon.

Hope that addresses some of your questions, best of luck.

TR

[TF Kilo]

TR,

I'm not sure if and or when any of this kit will get used. Either way, it'll be with us when we go camping and just as a pseudo-challenge I intend and my wife concurs that we should do a 3 nighter out in the woods once we have the vests set up, just to see what we end up thinking we're missing or could have used.

If it's an hour of lead-time, then it's going to be grab what you can in 15 minutes and start frigging moving. If it's longer then we obviously can prepare more and/or get the kitchen sink unbolted to put into the vehicle.

There's 3 directions you can go as far as getting away from wasilla, and one is out because it heads straight to anchorage... so that leaves 2 highways. Pretty crappy for any sort of a tactical egress but its what I have to work with. At some point along the road we execute a left or right face and start offroading with the blazer. Lifted CUCV with Hmmwv runflat 37's and a winch.

Our standard offroad *out for fun* package for a weekend trip includes over 1 weeks worth of FRESH food, and 2 weeks worth of dehydrated food, and enough tools to fix/recover/pioneer our way to safety. We have a water purification system onboard that requires little to no maintanance and can use any available water source other than salt water. Comms, tools etc etc.

Distance off road as well as away from people depends on lead time, the blazer always has a full tank and we have a rack for the hitch that fits 8 5 gallon cans if we have time to fill them. That's quite some distance even with that rig.

Once we're comfortably off the road, we'll stop and hole up at or nearby the vehicle, depending on the reason for being out there. If the vehicle breaks down or becomes unrecoverable, that's where the pens and alcohol markers come in because the vehicles location becomes a cache point if we're out there for an indeterminate period. The last thing I need to have happen because I have a crap memory, is forget where my gear is! it's not like I *can't* mark on the map, because if it's so bad that people have been able to secure that map then I won't have need of it anymore anyway.

The reason I've gone with m-4 stuff is because there's a m-4 in both of my primary vehicles because of work. We've got other armament that with proper lead time would definately be coming along, but an AR will work in a pinch for most anything you can eat here... just might need to dump a couple more rounds in it :P

The areas we've been to and have agreed that are good locations have an abundance of combustable material year round so fire won't be a problem past burning it, and they're piddly trees anyway that wouldn't be a problem for a small pack axe... but once again, I'm still working the 3 day problem that the vest is specifically being planned for.

The pack's jury is still out and I haven't come up with a packing list for that yet. Snowshoes are part of winter gear...It'll definately address some of the issues brought up like cooking pot, tent/sleep systems, etc.

Obviously, if we can't drive out then we hole up at the house... that's a whole different ballgame but we have all the evacuation gear already to augment the rest of the stuff we have at the house already.

Diablo Blanco, not to be a smart&$^% but you do realize that flexcuffs are just big, strong, zipties, right?

[koz]

Any thought on a sled for hauling gear? You'll be able to use the rivers (frozen) to move longer distances with little vertical change.

Just a suggestion - you may want to go visit some "off-roaders" (for those who don't know "off road" in AK is where one doesn't have any access to the house except for snow machine in the winter or float plane in the summer - of course foot is the third option). They have great long term planning (sometimes 2 months between resupply during break-up). They also have some of the best redneck engineering that you'll see. Sometimes the indig have the best handle on what is best to have handy. I've spent a lot of time around Willow just up the Parks Hwy from you and there's lots of the off road types up there.

You may also do some testing with snow shelters before you go out - can save your ass when you're out in the bush.