Be Prepared

[JoeyB]

Thanks TR
Ill check Ebay. One for a vehicle would work

[TF Kilo]

Here's my scenario:

Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear.

My current templated solution to this problem is a 3 layer system.

Vest, either molle or some variant thereof that can fit over armor if necessitated
Assault pack, to augment what the vest can't carry due to size/weight
Vehicle, quickly loaded with duffles/pelicans/containers for ease of loading and expediency.

My intent is to keep the vest to 15 lbs or so if possible, no more than 20. The assault pack/backpack can go further, 55 lbs max preferably to keep some ease of mobility (although intestinal fortitude goes a long way I'm not in the stellar shape I once was, and the wife has to carry the same basic load)

The vest is intended to be able to stand alone by itself for up to 3 days given an abundance of water (tons of good rivers, lakes, etc to resupply from up here) available. Movement with it on should theoretically be limited to 5 km from wherever we set up shop at if we have to use 'the evac plan', the movement will be for gathering supplies for shelter and augmenting our available food with game we take.

My current vest loadout that I've thought up through reading up in various locations, primarily here:

Hk Pistol in holster on right side

In pouches on front of vest

winter nomex gloves
sharpening stone
compass
100$ in 10's
alcohol pens
leatherman
LED flashlight w/ spare batteries
strobe w/ spare batteries
chemlites
GPS w/ spare batteries
Yaesu VS-7 Ham radio (tiny little unit) with rechargable battery and AA battery pack w/ spare AA's
Notepad
Map of templated area of operation
2x Kerlex
4x Emergency Trauma Dressing (isralie)
Betadyne in a unbreakable bottle
NPA x2
Fishing line, monofiliment and salmon line
Hooks for most common types of fish
Lighter
Magnesium bar
Emergency Matches
Cotton balls + Vaseline in film case
Tin Foil
Trioxane bars
Iodine Tablets
6 AR mags
4 HK mags
sewing kit

Sheath knife

back of vest
2 qt w/ cover, empty, 2 bottles of water in pouch with 2 qt for immediate water

Buttpack w/
poncho and liner
6x mainstay ration bars

inside vest or woven into vest
survival blanket
vs17 panel
550 cord
100mph tape
electrical tape
flexcuffs

To explain some of the kit...

Ammunition falls into survival by simple reasoning of Hunting/Gathering plus personal protection. I can drop 3 of the mags and leave an empty pouch for taking the mags out of a pack if it boils down to weight.

The Radio is wideband recieve capable, TV, AM/FM, CB, Shortwave. It'll transmit on most frequencies, HAM bands (144/220/440) best however. Most Ham repeaters and hams period strive to make their commo gear standalone and work off the grid, all the repeaters in the area are grid tied in but have battery/solar backups and some are straight off-the-grid and have been for some time. Either way it's S/A and can be augmented as necessary by charging off the vehicle (our vehicle is getting double 12v charging panels for the roof to ensure milimal electrical power)

Obviously the navigation gear is a good survival thing to have, and I have the means and time to select an area I know I can get to and be able to be far enough away that we'll be by ourselves but not be too far if things are not that bad after all.

First aid gear is minimal, we have a larger box for the vehicle that carries a good medbag's worth of gear.

The mainstay rations aren't something you'd want to live on for an extended period but they are good enough for 3 days, small, light, and no cooking required. 1200 calories per.

Flexcuffs, 550, tape, all good for tying together stuff for a shelter or repairs to various things that are necessitated.

Strobe, chemlites, vs17, flashlight... signaling, maneuvering, marking and also use as part of a shelter if it's an emergency but it's not a hide from people type emergency. Definately easier to find a hooch in the woods if it has a VS17 panel as part of the roof, it'll get a SAR bird to take a closer look at least.

Firestarting.. I have a bunch of stuff in here for it specifically since the vest itself wouldn't exactly be enough to survive in 0 degree weather. The poncho and liner would augment already-worn clothing though. I might look into one of the thinsulate warmer poncho liners, or see if 2 could be crammed into the pouch.


I would appreciate a critique of what I currently have templated for contents of the vests, I'll figure out then post up the packs and vehicular gear as I decide what's best for what I have to work with in this area.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by TF Kilo

Here's my scenario:

Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear....

Why are you on the run, where are you headed, and what do you plan to do when you get there? To evaluate your equipment would require more info for a good mission analysis.

I would say that a lot of your needs would be seasonal. An insect headnet will be of limited value in the winter, but might be very nice to have in the summer there.

A strobe is good if friendlies are looking for you at night by air, otherwise, I do not see why you would want to hump one.

What threat would necessitate wearing body armor, and taking on the additional weight of an item of very limited value for wilderness survival?

You seem to be pretty well armed for two-legged engagements, but not so much for large predators. Are you out to survive, or to run and gun?

Not trying to be nosy, but your layout seems odd for a survival scenario. Probably about right if you are on the run from the law.

Just a few casual obervations to start off with.

TR

[Diablo Blanco]

TF Kilo

Things I would lose completely from your list
* alcohol pens (how do these extend your survivability?)
* strobe light (most LED flash lights, headlamps have a strobe function now)


Things I would substitute
* vs17 panel and survival blanket for a couple of heatsheets
* flexcuffs (if you take a prisoner, you have to take care of them) for zip ties of various sizes, for fixin stuff. Plus if you ABSOLUTELY need to take a prisoner you still have zip ties
* sharpening stone for a Redi Edge dog tag sized sharpener
* 100$ in 10's for $200 in 10's, 5's, 1's and 50 cent and 1 dollar coins
* iodine tablets for Katadyn MicroPur tablets

What I would add
* a bit more food, what if your vehicle breaks down and you need to walk. Calculate your daily caloric requirements while walking the distance and add that plus 30% to your kit.
* a MIOX purifier (thanks TR) worth more than it's weight in gold. Read the instructions and practice with it before you need it.
* super glue and JB Weld - to complete your tool box
* an AMK ultralight .3 or .5 medical kit. They're small enough to not bother you on your vest
* an AMK DR Survival kit (about $30) can easily fit in your pocket should you need to leave your vest
* soap of some kind, little squeeze bottle

A vest I would suggest: The Camelbak Delta V for your kit. It has molle/pals webbing. A bladder, adjustable height and 4 inside pocket/pouches (2 with velcro 2 with zippers) to hold all your smaller items.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by TF Kilo

Here's my scenario:

Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear.

My current templated solution to this problem is a 3 layer system.

Vest, either molle or some variant thereof that can fit over armor if necessitated
Assault pack, to augment what the vest can't carry due to size/weight
Vehicle, quickly loaded with duffles/pelicans/containers for ease of loading and expediency.

My intent is to keep the vest to 15 lbs or so if possible, no more than 20. The assault pack/backpack can go further, 55 lbs max preferably to keep some ease of mobility (although intestinal fortitude goes a long way I'm not in the stellar shape I once was, and the wife has to carry the same basic load)

The vest is intended to be able to stand alone by itself for up to 3 days given an abundance of water (tons of good rivers, lakes, etc to resupply from up here) available. Movement with it on should theoretically be limited to 5 km from wherever we set up shop at if we have to use 'the evac plan', the movement will be for gathering supplies for shelter and augmenting our available food with game we take.

My current vest loadout that I've thought up through reading up in various locations, primarily here:

Hk Pistol in holster on right side

In pouches on front of vest

winter nomex gloves
sharpening stone
compass
100$ in 10's
alcohol pens
leatherman
LED flashlight w/ spare batteries
strobe w/ spare batteries
chemlites
GPS w/ spare batteries
Yaesu VS-7 Ham radio (tiny little unit) with rechargable battery and AA battery pack w/ spare AA's
Notepad
Map of templated area of operation
2x Kerlex
4x Emergency Trauma Dressing (isralie)
Betadyne in a unbreakable bottle
NPA x2
Fishing line, monofiliment and salmon line
Hooks for most common types of fish
Lighter
Magnesium bar
Emergency Matches
Cotton balls + Vaseline in film case
Tin Foil
Trioxane bars
Iodine Tablets
6 AR mags
4 HK mags
sewing kit

Sheath knife

back of vest
2 qt w/ cover, empty, 2 bottles of water in pouch with 2 qt for immediate water

Buttpack w/
poncho and liner
6x mainstay ration bars

inside vest or woven into vest
survival blanket
vs17 panel
550 cord
100mph tape
electrical tape
flexcuffs

To explain some of the kit...

Ammunition falls into survival by simple reasoning of Hunting/Gathering plus personal protection. I can drop 3 of the mags and leave an empty pouch for taking the mags out of a pack if it boils down to weight.

The Radio is wideband recieve capable, TV, AM/FM, CB, Shortwave. It'll transmit on most frequencies, HAM bands (144/220/440) best however. Most Ham repeaters and hams period strive to make their commo gear standalone and work off the grid, all the repeaters in the area are grid tied in but have battery/solar backups and some are straight off-the-grid and have been for some time. Either way it's S/A and can be augmented as necessary by charging off the vehicle (our vehicle is getting double 12v charging panels for the roof to ensure milimal electrical power)

Obviously the navigation gear is a good survival thing to have, and I have the means and time to select an area I know I can get to and be able to be far enough away that we'll be by ourselves but not be too far if things are not that bad after all.

First aid gear is minimal, we have a larger box for the vehicle that carries a good medbag's worth of gear.

The mainstay rations aren't something you'd want to live on for an extended period but they are good enough for 3 days, small, light, and no cooking required. 1200 calories per.

Flexcuffs, 550, tape, all good for tying together stuff for a shelter or repairs to various things that are necessitated.

Strobe, chemlites, vs17, flashlight... signaling, maneuvering, marking and also use as part of a shelter if it's an emergency but it's not a hide from people type emergency. Definately easier to find a hooch in the woods if it has a VS17 panel as part of the roof, it'll get a SAR bird to take a closer look at least.

Firestarting.. I have a bunch of stuff in here for it specifically since the vest itself wouldn't exactly be enough to survive in 0 degree weather. The poncho and liner would augment already-worn clothing though. I might look into one of the thinsulate warmer poncho liners, or see if 2 could be crammed into the pouch.


I would appreciate a critique of what I currently have templated for contents of the vests, I'll figure out then post up the packs and vehicular gear as I decide what's best for what I have to work with in this area.

It looks to me like you are trying to operate tactically and below the radar till you want to be picked up, then go active and be rescued (or at least have that capability).

What do you estimate the odds to be of you implementing this plan?

What will the lead time for implementation of this be? Do you forsee needing to move out in an hour or less, or do you anticipate having a few days?

What are you looking to buy or add that you do not have on hand and in stock right now?

Your analysis seems to be light on planning and logic, but maybe you have done due diligence without articulating it to my understanding. It does look, at least to my initial opinion, like a gear collection rather than an integrated list supporting a plan.

I have never been to Wasila, but I would imagine that once you leave the city limits, you are not likely to encounter anyone else on your 100-200 mile trek to your retreat destination. OTOH, I would imagine the odds of an encounter with large game or predators to be significantly higher. For that reason, since there are two people packing the gear and hardware, I would consider dropping one of the M-4s for either a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, a heavy lever action rifle like a .45-70, or a heavy bolt action rifle (.308 or larger). If you are attacked by anyone, they are most likely to be in pistol range, the second M-4 seems to me to be overkill, unless you are being pursued by a platoon or a zombie army.

Vehicle mobility is going to be key, I would focus on making sure that I had plenty of fuel and self-extraction capability at all times. The goal is to get to the retreat, not to dig in and play Alamo with the living dead while en route. You should be able to avoid most situations before you get into them. Remember that you never have to run from a fight if you start walking away soon enough. You need to arrive at your ENDEX time line with sufficient fuel and vehicle mobility to drive back to civilization as well, unless you plan on rucking home.

Secondary to vehicle mobility is foot mobility. I would say that in your location, cross-country skis or snowshoes may be a necessity. You will need to be sure that you have good boots available at all times as well and maintain yourselves in top physical condition.

Next is going to be shelter. Hopefully, there is some sort of stocked cabin or facility at your destination, For the movement phase, if your vehicle becomes immobilized, and you have to hoof it, you are going to be spending some nights out in the boonies in what could be a pretty inhospitable area, depending on METT-TC. That will require a tent and some good bags, not a space blanket or woobie.

Fire is normally included in shelter, but if you are worried about pursuers, you may not want to be lighting up any large blazes. You seem to have covered several alternative firemaking methods, that is good. Hope there is ample combustible fuel when you need it. I would feel better with a good multi-fuel cooking stove.

If you are planning on building field expedient shelters or harvesting large game, a small axe would be pretty close to a necessity, and a folding saw would be handy as well.

You are looking at several days of hard rucking, possibly on skis or snowshoes to move 100-200 miles on foot, possibly as much as 2 weeks, even if the weather is clear throughout the period for daylight movement. 3600 calories each is not going to be enough, especially if you are hoofing it. You should develop a feeding plan with a couple of weeks of freeze dried rations and cooking gear. That way, if you can supplement your rations with wild game, you can at least prepare it in some manner other than roasting everything. Baked fish, for the 10th day, is probably going to get old.

There are a number of other equipment issues, but I would say that you are prepared, if you are going to move during the few months when the weather is warm and conditions are optimal. In general, I think you are thinking too much like a soldier and not enough like a camper or Boy Scout. As I am sure you are aware, the weather and terrain can kill you as thoroughly as an enemy with a weapon.

Hope that addresses some of your questions, best of luck.

TR

[Diablo Blanco]

Originally Posted by JoeyB

Gentlemen
Iv been looking through the various battery/electronic sites I could find with no luck..
Im looking for a solar battery charger for AA and 123's at a miimum.
Thanks

JoeyB I had this same search last year as I was hoping to save a ton of money on rechargeable 123's for my surefire, etc. Truth is the rechargeable 123s don't have the amps for lighting use. If you are using them for electronics be sure the 'mah' are within range before you purchase a system/solution

[Randyha]

An interesting product for bulk water storage. I'm building a new house and am considering a place for 2 to 4 of these in my garage.
http://incaseof.ca/supertanker.htm#dealers

[ZooKeeper]

Originally Posted by Randyha

An interesting product for bulk water storage. I'm building a new house and am considering a place for 2 to 4 of these in my garage.
http://incaseof.ca/supertanker.htm#dealers

250 gal storage for a little over $500, that might not be a bad investment. I will have to look into this a little more.

Edit: The only suggestion or thought I would make is to have some 5 gal and/or 15 gal containers in case you need to bail out or move away from your home.

[echoes]

...

move on...nothing to see here..

Originally Posted by ZooKeeper

250 gal storage for a little over $500, that might not be a bad investment. I will have to look into this a little more.

Edit: The only suggestion or thought I would make is to have some 5 gal and/or 15 gal containers in case you need to bail out or move away from your home.

Build yourself a cistern.. run your gutters to the cistern.. everytime it rains the water goes to fill the cistern.. You can turn an overflow into a waterfall or a nice stream.. its what we did with our cistern .. had a stream that had wild roses and columbine growing along it..

You can make a concrete cistern for about a thousand gallons for that kind of money. Or you can build one out of concrete blocks and then paint the inside with the same kind of paint that they use in underground storage tanks. I happen to have the name of a company that sells that kind of paint.
Ya gotta be pretty careful with the paint though. 3 or 4 layers, each painted a different way, one layer up and down, next horizontal, next up and down and so on..

One can purchase at Wally World collapsable water containers for a reasonable price. Water is easy to aquire.. keep a bottle with bleach in it..
few drops in the bottle and the water is purified.. too much and it tastes like crap.. btdt that last fall when I shocked my tank..eewww nasty taste but it biodegrades overnight. How much bleach.. You can put it in one of those plastic campting bottles.. do NOT use aluminum bottles. It will eat away the aluminum.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

Build yourself a cistern.. run your gutters to the cistern.. everytime it rains the water goes to fill the cistern...

Unless collecting rainwater for personal use is illegal, like it has been for the last 100+ years here on the eastern slope of Colorado.
In other words, be sure to check your local ordinances before laying out money and effort.

[Axe]

I have used Tang with some salt as an ORS for my family and I for years.

Tang ingredients are listed at 9 grams of sugar per 8 oz serving.

Using 4 grams/tsp of Sugar, there is 2.25 tsp per 8 oz serving, or 9 grams per quart.

Add your 1 tsp of salt, and you have an ORS with a little extra sugar, but a flavor most people will tolerate well.

Tang does not list Potassium or Magnesium. It lists 10% of the RDA of Calcium. It has quite a few Vitamins listed as well, and it stays useful practically forever.

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by Razor

Unless collecting rainwater for personal use is illegal, like it has been for the last 100+ years here on the eastern slope of Colorado.
In other words, be sure to check your local ordinances before laying out money and effort.

Why on earth is it illegal there?

[Axe]

Originally Posted by Randyha

An interesting product for bulk water storage. I'm building a new house and am considering a place for 2 to 4 of these in my garage.
http://incaseof.ca/supertanker.htm#dealers

A bit of a necropost here, I realize. I was looking at these tanks earlier, then later did some research on earthquake preparedness, and had a lightbulb moment.

If you install any water tanks like these and live in a seismic zone, be sure you strap them very securely to a good, strong wall.

Each one of the large tanks weighs 2000 lbs, and they have a very small footprint relative to the weight distribution. They are going to want to fall over if the ground starts moving.

[The Reaper]

One good water storage solution I have used is 275 gallon food grade industrial totes.

They take up a bit of space, the footprint is roughly 48"x40", maybe 40" tall, but it is hard to find a way to pack water in more tightly. I put mine in my garage, you could put them outside, but the weather and sunlight will cause algae and other undesirables to grow in them more quickly. Remember that each one weighs more than 2,200 pounds when filled, so it is not for apartment storage. It has a metal tube cage around a poly bladder, so you can stack them up to three high, it has a port 6" or so on top and a 2" NPT ball valve on the bottom. You can sometimes find them in your area on Craigslist, soft drink and other food companies use them. I would make absolutely sure what was in them previously, and rinse them thoroughly regardless. If I was going to keep them filled, I would put in an appropriate amount of chlorine and then dump and refill them at least annually, sooner if it starts showing signs of bacteria growth.

Best thing is that they usually run less than $100 each.

HTH.

TR