04-12-2009, 14:33
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#31
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canton, PA
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward
TR and Blitzzz,
My apologies if my post came across the wrong way.
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I was going to reply too, but it took me a few reads to figure out you were quoting someone else.
On the topic, I believe any legislation infringes on the right to keep and bear arms. I also believe it's been a long time since we have really enjoyed freedom and liberty here in the US. ( As a matter of fact, I believe the last time we really enjoyed freedom was when one could pick up the Sears catalog and order a Thompson for 200 bucks... now THAT is freedom.)
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"...as far as rights go, I look at them this way. I won't tell you what kind of church to go to, you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own."
Quote:
Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
"The Reaper"
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grog18b is offline
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04-12-2009, 17:06
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#32
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Asset
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, AK (But Afghanistan right now...)
Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grog18b
On the topic, I believe any legislation infringes on the right to keep and bear arms. I also believe it's been a long time since we have really enjoyed freedom and liberty here in the US. ( As a matter of fact, I believe the last time we really enjoyed freedom was when one could pick up the Sears catalog and order a Thompson for 200 bucks... now THAT is freedom.)
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Was that with the 50rd drum magazine, or the 30rd stick? 
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Onward is offline
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04-12-2009, 18:14
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#33
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Da South
Posts: 294
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60 Minutes
I highly recommend tonight's 60 Minutes report titled "Gun Rush."
The last few seconds are actually quite encouraging. Feinstein states she will not be looking to press the ban anytime soon, and recommends that Obama puts it off as well.
Additionally, Gallup polls are at their lowest ever (49%) when asking Americans if they are in favor of stricter gun control.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4931769.shtml
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For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-Jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary period, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which is likely to be the more ominous for the [terrorists] -- an American decision that this is sport, or that it is business.
-D. W. Brogan, The American Character
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NoRoadtrippin is offline
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04-12-2009, 18:31
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#34
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRoadtrippin
I highly recommend tonight's 60 Minutes report titled "Gun Rush."
The last few seconds are actually quite encouraging. Feinstein states she will not be looking to press the ban anytime soon, and recommends that Obama puts it off as well.
Additionally, Gallup polls are at their lowest ever (49%) when asking Americans if they are in favor of stricter gun control.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4931769.shtml |
Feinstein's key words 'anytime soon' which imo equates to they are waiting for just the right moment to press it forward.
As in her own words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3zOU...layer_embedded
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Quote:
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When a man dies, if nothing is written, he is soon forgotten.
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Last edited by Paslode; 04-12-2009 at 18:35.
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Paslode is offline
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04-12-2009, 19:42
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#35
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Da South
Posts: 294
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Yes, she is definitely only saying that it is not a priority at the moment. Surely, she will make it one in the future. I think the more encouraging thing is the Gallup number there at the end. It could show that even when she does find the "time of [her] choosing," maybe the rest of the country won't be so prone to agree with the idea.
Just my take. YMMV.
__________________
For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-Jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary period, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which is likely to be the more ominous for the [terrorists] -- an American decision that this is sport, or that it is business.
-D. W. Brogan, The American Character
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NoRoadtrippin is offline
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04-12-2009, 20:35
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#36
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRoadtrippin
Yes, she is definitely only saying that it is not a priority at the moment. Surely, she will make it one in the future. I think the more encouraging thing is the Gallup number there at the end. It could show that even when she does find the "time of [her] choosing," maybe the rest of the country won't be so prone to agree with the idea.
Just my take. YMMV.
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I would agree on the polls, but as recently demonstrated by our so-called representatives votes in favor of the Stimulus, the GIVE ACT and several other bills, it would appear they do not base their votes on the polls and/or the wishes of the people.
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Quote:
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When a man dies, if nothing is written, he is soon forgotten.
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Paslode is offline
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04-13-2009, 06:20
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#37
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC for now
Posts: 2,418
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60 Minutes did their quarterly Anti Gun piece last night. Finstien said "now is not the place and time for a new AWB. But I there will be a place and time for one in the future"
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Sounds like a s#*t sandwhich, but I'll fight anyone, I'm in.
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kgoerz is offline
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04-13-2009, 06:56
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#38
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,835
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Maybe, JUST maybe, if they screw up the next 18 months badly enough, they may not have the votes to pursue their agenda after the 2010 election.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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04-13-2009, 08:05
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#39
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoerz
60 Minutes did their quarterly Anti Gun piece last night.
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And 20/20 did its best Michael Moore imitation last week. All was not lost, however; it provided me with an excellent opportunity to show my oldest how the media can and will deliberately slant their reporting to support their stand on an issue.
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Razor is offline
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04-13-2009, 09:53
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#40
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BANNED USER
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
If I go out to the range for a couple of hours I have to remember to swing by the house to drop the weapons off before I pick up my child at school.
So if no "weapons on school grounds" is such a great law why have there been so many school shootings?
Remember when they were pushing the weapons exclusion zones for around schools? I don't remember the exact distance but it was something like 1/4 mile. Sit down at a county map, set a compass to that distance and draw a circle around every public and private school. That would have impacted a bunch of people.
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Jeeze! I take four lousy days leave from work and come back to find my E-mail in-box screaming for attention -- apparantly that lady really, really, really want me to participate in the Leave-Share Program. And why do "them's that can" authorize a holiday pass, wait until I've spent a day's leave on it anyway? 
Pete , you asked, "if no "weapons on school grounds" is such a great law why have there been so many school shootings?" Because the ones who do the school shootings aren't like you. They aren't law-abidding folks that take the trouble to comply with the law like you. They are, however, also the ones that the full time weapon carrying LEO is waiting for.
As for the exculsion zone? Cooler, smarter heads prevailed and the 1/4 mi radius (or whatever it was) was scrapped. Because it was stupid. But, having the exclusion zone start at the School Yard Gate? That makes sense.
Pete, you are very experienced with employing weapons correctly (most here are). I'm sure when your kids are around weapons (regardless of style) the only thing safer then the weapon is your kid.
Here is my question: Why are we willing to abandon everyone's safety to protect every individual's access? And no cussin' at other QP's allowed 
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Dozer523 is offline
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04-13-2009, 10:00
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#41
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,835
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I think Benjamin Franklin summed it up for me back in 1775:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I would also add Samuel Adams thoughts:
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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04-13-2009, 10:41
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#42
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozer523
Because the ones who do the school shootings aren't like you. They aren't law-abidding folks that take the trouble to comply with the law like you. They are, however, also the ones that the full time weapon carrying LEO is waiting for.
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What's the response time for the "full time weapon carrying LEOs" at your local school? Unless Fortune smiles upon the school my kids go to, response can be measured in 10s of minutes, and they go to a school in the city. The elementary, middle and high school near my house are under county sheriff jurisdiction, and the sheriff himself has stated response could be as long as 45 minutes to an hour, depending on where the closest deputy happens to be at the time of the call. Lots of shooting can be accomplished in that time.
Depend on a overworked and stretched thin LE dept. for my kids' individual safety? No thanks.
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Razor is offline
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04-13-2009, 10:59
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#43
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,835
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dozer:
Do a little research and tell me what happened with the SRO when Columbine was hit, and what happened to the kids who were his responsibility.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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04-13-2009, 11:05
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#44
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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My question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozer523
....Here is my question: Why are we willing to abandon everyone's safety to protect every individual's access? ...
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You equate gun free zones with safty. It would appear that most nuts open fire in gun free zones.
My question - Why are some so willing to strip everybody of a right for the illusion of safty?
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Pete is offline
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04-13-2009, 11:20
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#45
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
I think Benjamin Franklin summed it up for me back in 1775:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I would also add Samuel Adams thoughts:
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
TR
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Great post TR. Our country needs a history lesson like this................
GB TFS 
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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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