12-24-2013, 13:38
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#151
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,665
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Salinas police chief defends armored vehicle replacement
Quote:
“It’s easy to throw out that ‘militarization of the police’ line,” he said. “But what is militarization of the police? Is that equipment or is it tactics?”
He added, “An allegation that we are militarizing has to be that we were patrolling the streets in platoons in greater numbers, that we were setting up checkpoints and searching people in and out of neighborhoods.”
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Quote:
But when you’re on phone with 911 and someone is shooting at your house, this is the vehicle you want to see, McMillin said.
“The community will be safer for this vehicle,” he said. “If you’re the person with some guy shooting next door, you want to see this thing driving up into your yard, the hydraulic steps coming down and 37,000 pounds of ballistically sound steel between you and the person taking shots at you.”
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http://www.thecalifornian.com/apps/p...80046&gcheck=1
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When a man dies, if nothing is written, he is soon forgotten.
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Paslode is offline
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12-24-2013, 13:58
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#152
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paslode
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Somehow, I just don'tr see it being used like that very often.
More likely, it will be accidentally running into a lot of private property or being used to ram down doors/structures, just because it can.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-24-2013, 14:29
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#153
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lone Star
Posts: 2,153
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This thread reminds me of spirited discussion we had on active shooter few years back. Many mentioned Beslan scenario is coming. Well, when it does, wouldn't "militarization" of the PD allow them to stand a bit better chance against well-armed-ill-intentioned jihadis?
I must admit I'm more warm and fuzzy towards our PD brethern after taking few classes with them, and when PD is purchasing Barrett M107, 416, etc. one can't deny the direction of militarization. The Puerto Rico PD explained to me the SOP for the use of Barrett was for barricade and boat interdiction scenarios
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Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
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INDNJC
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frostfire is offline
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12-24-2013, 14:44
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#154
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire
PD allow them to stand a bit better chance against well-armed-ill-intentioned jihadis?
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I'm thinkin' a .243 or 30-06 and some practice...for close up a five round AR - but absolutely no ten inch barrels 
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Δεν είμαι άξιος του σταυρού του Ιησού οπή, Andreas
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badshot is offline
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12-24-2013, 15:24
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#155
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,097
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Sounds like a "no knock, night servicable" search warrant. No announcement and served before 0700 hours. Still, little information as to how the DA came to that conclusion of charging the man for captial murder of a PO.
I wonder if it was that exreme then why wasn't SWAT Called out and if Sgt Sowders was wearing body armor and a helmet? My two cents is that when most non SWAT officers conduct warrants that they don't wear body armor and helmets due to complacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacOfficer
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18C4V is offline
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12-24-2013, 19:21
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#156
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire
This thread reminds me of spirited discussion we had on active shooter few years back. Many mentioned Beslan scenario is coming. Well, when it does, wouldn't "militarization" of the PD allow them to stand a bit better chance against well-armed-ill-intentioned jihadis?
I must admit I'm more warm and fuzzy towards our PD brethern after taking few classes with them, and when PD is purchasing Barrett M107, 416, etc. one can't deny the direction of militarization. The Puerto Rico PD explained to me the SOP for the use of Barrett was for barricade and boat interdiction scenarios
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A Beslan scenario here will not be handled by local LE unless it goes critical before the Feds get there.
And there are very few local SWAT teams with sufficient manpower and talent to conduct that assault.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-25-2013, 12:20
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#157
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
A Beslan scenario here will not be handled by local LE unless it goes critical before the Feds get there.
And there are very few local SWAT teams with sufficient manpower and talent to conduct that assault.
TR
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And even if the feds arrive I'd expect few hostages to survive..... lawyers with guns (FBI) don't fair well in any gunfights.....
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Team Sergeant is offline
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12-25-2013, 15:23
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#158
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Blackhawks-ville
Posts: 356
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Who would a QP want to respond to the above incident?
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Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will always find a way around the law
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TacOfficer is offline
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12-25-2013, 15:42
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#159
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacOfficer
Who would a QP want to respond to the above incident?
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A unit that we will not be discussing here.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-25-2013, 16:44
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#160
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Blackhawks-ville
Posts: 356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
A unit that we will not be discussing here.
TR
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Understood.
Let me put it another way? If a QP would choose an option available for discussion?
Thanks in advance.
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Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will always find a way around the law
Plato
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TacOfficer is offline
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12-26-2013, 07:09
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#161
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacOfficer
Understood.
Let me put it another way? If a QP would choose an option available for discussion?
Thanks in advance.
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Troop 323 of the BSA. That would be my choice.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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miclo18d is offline
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12-26-2013, 11:59
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#162
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 158
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If you bought it you have to use it
Years ago, before I retired from law enforcement, I was a certified SWAT instructor for the state I worked in and I trained our department's tactical team (we chose not to call it "SWAT").
The resource (team) became available because the chief wanted one. He wanted one because no other nearby department had one. It was essentially a ego thing.
But we created, equipped and trained a pretty decent team to include having a very non-threatening, low profile vehicle to move it around in and it did some good work although not often.
BLUF - if you've bought it (sold the powers that be that your department and community really really REALLY needs such a resource and they've paid for it) you have to use it...or you'll lose it budgeting wise.
Which means there is the very real tendency to over-use this capability and to use it where good old fashioned and seasoned street officers could get the same thing done (warrant service, for example) and often more safely and smarter.
To me, today, it's all about the money. Getting grants and posturing to your fellow chiefs and sheriffs about how your department now has its own "door kickers" and the latest greatest equipment.
Give me a street smart cop who knows the case, the folks involved and loves being creative. He or she will get 98% of the "high risk" arrests done without mishap or the front page of the newspaper's announcement of how "SWAT" shot yet another family pet.
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"Do not look upon this world with fear and loathing. Bravely face whatever the gods offer." - Morihei Ueshiba, Founder of Aikido
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Kasik is offline
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12-28-2013, 11:14
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#163
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Little more info
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR2
I'd like to see a copy of the warrant and officers reports.
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Little more info from "Coach is Right" ...
Deputy killed as SWAT Team breaks through door to serve “No Knock” warrant
http://www.coachisright.com/deputy-k...knock-warrant/
"On December 19th, a sheriff’s deputy was shot and killed during an attempt to serve a “no knock” warrant near Sommerville, Texas. Just before 6:00 A.M. an 8 member SWAT team broke through the door of Henry Goedrich Magee to serve a warrant which would permit the team to search the mobile home in which Magee and his pregnant girlfriend were living......."
He was one downright dangerous dude...
Must have thought he would flush the pot plants down the commode.
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Pete is offline
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12-28-2013, 13:48
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#164
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 694
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That was my first thought, TR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
A unit that we will not be discussing here.
TR
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DJ Urbanovsky is offline
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12-31-2013, 06:40
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#165
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Well, it appears
Well, it appears it is more dangerous driving to the scene than it is operating at the scene.
I saw floating around somewhere on the net that the 2013 stats show 46 killed in traffic accedents and 33 killed by gunfire.
(But to be fair I'm sure some of those 46 were taken down by some dumb ass driver who ran them down while the LEO was at a traffic stop or accident.)
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Pete is offline
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