Does the "Regular Army" hate SF?

[Utah Bob]

The Army is a large machine incapable of hate or love.

Individuals are another matter.

[Todd 1]

Originally Posted by taskforceiron

There was no animosity towards the Special Forces in the 101st or any of the other units I served with.

I agree, while I was at Campbell, I worked with 5th SFG on two occasions. The first was EIB train-up and testing which was conducted by my unit (2 Bde), the second was a CAS range that was taught and conducted by 5th group. Although both of my experiences were limited to the squad and platoon level I didn’t notice any animosity between the units either, quite the opposite.

The QP’s who participated were not only good students (they all earned the EIB), they were also great teachers, the SF instructors made it easy to learn and the night CAS live fire was f-ing awesome. Good times

[Aceshigh]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

The Army is a large machine incapable of hate or love.

Individuals are another matter.

During my only deployment to Iraq (so far), I was occasionally on gate guard when a 4 truck convoy of SF guys came through. I have no idea why they were there but every time they came through the HMMWV gunners waved hello and tossed a rip-it or two the guards way.

Needless to say I was a huge fan of these guys, I think everyone at the outpost was, even though they only passed through a few times.

The few people I met who had an issue with SF were the same people who had something bad to say about everyone and everything.

Among most of the folks I worked with I cannot remember any negative predispositions towards SF.

[Mitch]

I can only relate to the SF of more than a generation ago and depending where you were – you could have a different impression. For instance – at Bragg, whether or not, you were feeling disrespected by other tenant units, it didn’t begin to outweigh the impression that many of us had, who served in regular SF line units (3rd, 6th, 7th), that JFK Center had no respect for us at all – we were all just detail fodder.

I know they were just appeasing the powers that be at XVIII Corps, but they could have taken a firmer stand I think – they didn’t. One month out of three saw us on Post Support where we were routinely misused in nonsense details that weren’t necessarily demeaning, but were just so commonplace, so un SFlike.

So – when guys from the 82nd or other units saw us picking up pine cones virtually everywhere on post, or guarding the PX or driving forklifts in the main post warehouse, or shoveling coal, or sorting books in the post library, or issuing cues and chalk at the Service Club (the list goes on and on), they couldn’t help but lose a little respect. Take that – and add the jealousy factor that some had and it was a good bet that we would not get along – we tended not to.

Never had that impression at Devens.

Originally Posted by mark46th

In SE Asia, SF was running indig outfits up to battalion size. It scared the hell out of RA officers when they saw Enlisted men training, equipping and running combat operations on that level...

Mark, are you saying an American SF soldiers, SSG/E6 type could be a host nation company commander?

The thought escapes me.

[andrewa]

Originally Posted by taskforceiron

There was no animosity towards the Special Forces in the 101st or any of the other units I served with.

That reminds me of the time I was invited to go to a Cisco networking class at 5th Group. The class was a week long and I must have heard about 50 comments on how we had our own compound away from everyone and they were located in the middle of post. I almost felt like apologizing. I think the close proximity at Fort Campbell helps keep the animosity level low. Other Group locations that have their own compounds might feel the animosity level a little higher. I know my unit always had great respect for SF, part of the reason why I am so interested in applying for SFAS.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I can only relate to the SF of more than a generation ago and depending where you were – you could have a different impression. For instance – at Bragg, whether or not, you were feeling disrespected by other tenant units, it didn’t begin to outweigh the impression that many of us had, who served in regular SF line units (3rd, 6th, 7th), that JFK Center had no respect for us at all – we were all just detail fodder.

I know they were just appeasing the powers that be at XVIII Corps, but they could have taken a firmer stand I think – they didn’t. One month out of three saw us on Post Support where we were routinely misused in nonsense details that weren’t necessarily demeaning, but were just so commonplace, so un SFlike.

So – when guys from the 82nd or other units saw us picking up pine cones virtually everywhere on post, or guarding the PX or driving forklifts in the main post warehouse, or shoveling coal, or sorting books in the post library, or issuing cues and chalk at the Service Club (the list goes on and on), they couldn’t help but lose a little respect. Take that – and add the jealousy factor that some had and it was a good bet that we would not get along – we tended not to.

Never had that impression at Devens.

Mitch,

Didn't experience in the early 60's what you've had endured.......... 82nd guys wanted to be "Green Berets" and looked up to being one,quite a few re-upped for SF...... This is also very true for 12th Group enlistment when I was in the reserves.......We have always been the "Crem del la Creme" of the Armed Forces and always will be............De Oppresso Liber.

Big Teddy

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

Mitch,

Didn't experience in the early 60's what you've had endured.......... 82nd guys wanted to be "Green Berets" and looked up to being one,quite a few re-upped for SF...... This is also very true for 12th Group enlistment when I was in the reserves.......We have always been the "Crem del la Creme" of the Armed Forces and always will be............De Oppresso Liber.

Big Teddy

Things changed obviously in the late 60s at Bragg. There was a surplus of SF by then - all piling up on Smoke Bomb Hill. Too many NCOs with nothing much to do - so they had to be creative with finding us details. We were farmed out to just about anyone that wanted a warm body, for anything imaginable.
I fortunately finally escaped from Bragg - and successfully avoided a PCS there from then on.

[Telecustom]

I actually have a SGM right now that is actively discouraging quality NCOs from even going to selection.

[taskforceiron]

Originally Posted by Telecustom

I actually have a SGM right now that is actively discouraging quality NCOs from even going to selection.

He probably just does not want to lose his best soldiers to SF. Only you have enough insight to know whether that is correct or not. Has he ever said anything in a negative manner towards SF?

[Telecustom]

Originally Posted by taskforceiron

He probably just does not want to lose his best soldiers to SF. Only you have enough insight to know whether that is correct or not. Has he ever said anything in a negative manner towards SF?

True that he doesn't want to lose a good Soldier. But it runs deeper than that. He has very little respect for SF. He doesn't consider an 18Z as having any true leadership experience because they lead smaller units of men. I have actually heard the comment "They aren't real leaders, because they haven't commanded anything bigger than a squad.

I have found on several occasions people see my SF patch and instantly get an anti-SF mentality. I was just a support guy but spent 4 yrs in GRP and am very defensive toward the bad mouthing from the Regular Army. With the change in the way RA fights and the fact that they are conducting some more traditional SF FID missions, the RA guys think they can do it all without SF. In fact, they look at GRP as a money pit and ODAs as undisciplined trouble makers that actually handicap RA units’ ability to do their jobs.

The level of disrespect is sickening.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by Telecustom

...I have actually heard the comment "They aren't real leaders, because they haven't commanded anything bigger than a squad...

I suppose leading Company (+) size element(s) of host nation soldiers into combat as a SSG (squad leader position) isnt leading...

[Telecustom]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

I suppose leading Company (+) size element(s) of host nation soldiers into combat as a SSG (squad leader position) isnt leading...

They just don't understand the actual mission, they just see the sunglasses and make their opinion from there.

[ksboi]

This was a great read! A friend got back from selection while I was gone to 25B school, and our unit was all for it. I was proud of the guy for making it happen for himself. Once I told the unit I am in now that I was doing the research about it, all I got was, "pssssshh you will never make it", "you don't run enough", or the "I was going to do it but..." The do not see all the reading ive been doing. I am on this site reading and googling things. The hours I put into the gym during lunch of doing 15 reps of exercises, the pullups(hate em) I try to rep out to get ready for SFAS. Sorry to rant on about it.

[GSquared]

Originally Posted by ksboi

This was a great read! A friend got back from selection while I was gone to 25B school, and our unit was all for it. I was proud of the guy for making it happen for himself. Once I told the unit I am in now that I was doing the research about it, all I got was, "pssssshh you will never make it", "you don't run enough", or the "I was going to do it but..." The do not see all the reading ive been doing. I am on this site reading and googling things. The hours I put into the gym during lunch of doing 15 reps of exercises, the pullups(hate em) I try to rep out to get ready for SFAS. Sorry to rant on about it.

People who hate on others for going to selection are just jealous. Every single one of them. I've never gone, but I've never felt the need to bag on anyone for wanting to go, because sometimes you'd be surprised at who's tough enough to make it through.

Let the haters hate, and let it motivate you. I love when someone tells me I can't do something, it makes me work even harder for it.

Keep on keepin' on, bro, and I'm sure you'll make it.

As far as "Regular Army" hating SF, I know as a support guy, I've encountered people from conventional units. A lot of support guys get a lot of shit because of other support guys who have painted us in a negative light. I remember when we were attached to 5th SFG, this E-4 from 5th told a 101st officer to "Fuck off, I'm from 5th group". That's obviously the wrong answer. The key is to just mind your surroundings when you're wearing a Group patch and respect the rules of the land around you, because they're waiting for you to do something fucked up or have something look fucked up on your uniform.