The Adventure Challenge

[Pete]

Hmm 40 Lbs

http://www.foldingkayaks.org/

Time is money and the worst kind of ride beats the best kind of walking.

While a big hit on what you can take it, and a bear to hump up the Appalachians it would come into its own on the other side. 5 mph down river x 10 hours = 50+ miles a day. Down the Ohio in early spring to the Mississippi.

Could make some time up the Platte after the spring floods.

Thoughts? Advantages vs Drawbacks

[The Reaper]

[QUOTE=BryanK;209778]Though my field time is limited at best, I have been primitive camping for many years. This is without a doubt a very ominous assignment. To fathom a trek across America on foot alone is foolhardy, but I'll give 'er a shot.
Can this be accomplished successfully? God Willing
Do you accept the challenge? Yes
Where do you start? Port at Locust Point (Baltimore, MD)
What route do you take? What is now the central region of the United States, heading northwest after negotiating the Mississippi river.
Where do you plan to finish? What is now Cannon Beach, Oregon
How long do you think it will take you? 2 ½ years
What is in your field gear?
Fire starting materials, knife/sharpening stones, climbing rope, carabiners, burlap bag, waterproof bags, 550 cord, 100mph tape, ponchos 2ea, Warm clothes appropriate for the climates I will be traveling through, sun-hat, wool hat, Asolo boots 2pr, moccasins, gloves (both for work and warmth), Water purification tablets, salt, one 10x20 tarp to start with(cutting as I go to better suit my needs once acclimated), aluminum tent stakes, bug juice, land nav manual, survival manual, weapon cleaning kit, brass hammer, 3ea 1/8 in. punches, 5ea 1/16 in punches, pliers, E-tool, fishing line, hooks, flies, mirror, hygiene gear, antibiotics/first aid kit, canteen cup 2ea, camelback, 1ea 2qt, 2ea 1qt canteens, composition books x2, foot notes about the various cultures, and waterproof/temperature resistant pens.
What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you?
Critical modern items: As stated in the parameters- Palm PDA, Canon Powershot camera with memory cards, Olympus VN4100 recorder, and a Solio charger or two with adapters. Items of the time: tobacco, salt, clothing of the time, and various Native American ornaments from each tribe I may encounter in my travels (kind of lightning jack, I know).
What are your priorities? Stay focused, stay calm, food, shelter, water procurement.
How will you carry it? Kifaru Pointman, with Gunbearer attached, and LBE.
What firearms will you take? Thompson Center Encore pistol in 45/70 govt, Henry US survival .22, Ruger 10/22 w/scope/integrated silencer, and a Flintlock pistol w/equipment (in case someone wants to know what made that “BANG” that he heard earlier from my direction).
How much ammo, accessories, etc.? 150 rounds of 45/70 govt, 1000 rounds of .22lr or more if it won’t weigh too much, and a few spare parts (i.e., trigger groups, extractors, ejectors, springs, spring pins)
What edged tools do you take? Gerber multi-tool, Benchmade 158 , Benchmade Axis.
What navigational aids do you take? Manual, custom made 1:24,000 scale maps of the route I’ve chosen in waterproof tube, Brunton Geo Pocket Transit 2ea
What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey? 100%
What do you do in the 30 days before you leave? Take various history lessons, and in depth wilderness survival courses (maybe one of those held by EDIT by the Team Sergeant I don't believe these individuals that run that "school" have the intelligence of a dust mite. And we're not going to promote idiots.

Bryan:

How many pounds of lightweight gear do you think you are packing there?

TR

[BryanK]

Bryan:

How many pounds of lightweight gear do you think you are packing there?

TR

I know it appears that I was grocery shopping hungry, but for a venture that lengthy I couldn't imagine anything less. This would be an initial carry of course. If the load became too great, I would dump the equipment as I went along. As far as a rough estimate, 80-90lbs. I will compile the approximate weight as soon as I can.

P.S. TS, no more posts advertising, roger.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by BryanK

I know it appears that I was grocery shopping hungry, but for a venture that lengthy I couldn't imagine anything less. This would be an initial carry of course. If the load became too great, I would dump the equipment as I went along. As far as a rough estimate, 80-90lbs. I will compile the approximate weight as soon as I can.

P.S. TS, no more posts advertising, roger.

Interesting list, thanks for posting it.

I'd say you are closer to 150-200 pounds, especially with the four firearms and ammo. I would estimate their weight at 60-70 pounds.

If you insist on the burlap and tarps, rather than modern, lightweight gear, you are going to be way over.

Maps, as mentioned before, are going to be very heavy. You are going to need at least 185 sheets, if you can keep your course straight as an arrow within the 15 mile or so N-S height of the map. That is enough to paper the roof of a small house. If you want to allow for a little drifting, bypassing, or exploring, you will need to double or triple that number.

Don't forget to add the food and water you are going to have to pack.

Just a few thoughts.

TR

[The Reaper]

Okay, since there seems to be a lull here, let me make a modest proposal.

This is by no means all inclusive, or even well-thought out, just some random ideas based on my personal experiende and the lists you guys have provided.


Can this be accomplished successfully?

Yes, but it will depend on luck almost as much as skill. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong step, wrong bite, and you are 1,500 miles from a sawbones with circa 1700 training and tech, with a busted leg and no options.

Do you accept the challenge?

Sure, where is the glory in staying home?

Where do you start?

Charleston or Savannah, in early March.

What route do you take?

I would look for a southern route, probably along the Charleston-LA or SD corridor, and would look for handrails to keep me on the right track. The NC route goes through the highest mountains east of the Mississippi, and too far south and you have to cross way too many water obstacles feeding the Gulf. Much further North and you run into really bad winters, and hostile tribes. The western part of the CHS-LA route requires crossing mountains, deserts, or both, but there are some Spanish settlements and missions there. A good plan should select for regular availability of water and use of known passes through the mountains. I would plan to avoid hostile tribes, take advantage of settlements, plentiful game and travel along rivers whenever possible. Yes, I would try and barter for a canoe (possibly with native paddlers) for river travel whenever possible. I do not want to portage it though, so it is easier to "rent" one as you get to a water route. This would also allow you to take a LOT more supplies when traveling by boat.

Where do you plan to finish?

I want to finish in San Diego or LA, depending on further recon. If I get there early, it wouldn’t matter, I would just move from your arrival point to the pick-up point and settle in for a while.

How long do you think it will take you?

I would hope for 9 months, but BPT take as long as 2 years. I would probably call for exfil at 15-18 months or so.

What is in your field gear?

Just what I need. Note that this is not a school solution, or all inclusive, merely reason to think.

The ruck will be key, since you are going to be under it for nine to twenty-four months. Might want to pack some spare straps and fastex buckles, as well as an awl and some heavy canvas or sail type needles. The AMK repair kit would be a good base kit.

Potable water is going to be very important. Bladders are lightweight, and I would rather hump an extra pound or two of unused weight (and have some handy floatation devices as well), rather than play “how many days can I go without water” death race from water hole to water hole in the West. I would want at least six liters of bladder capacity, that is only a day or two of supply when you are working hard. A Camelback with a spare bladder and a couple of the old 5 qt. collapsible canteens, with two Nalgene bottles would be my preference. I would take a multi-directional approach to purification with an MSR Miox, some coffee filters, some WP tabs, and possibly a small pump type filter.

Cooking gear, due to weight restrictions, is going to be Spartan. No cast iron here. Probably the best set of Titanium nested cookware I can find. A Ti cup fitting the Nalgene bottles would be good. Ti utensils. The largest Ti pot I could find as well, put the rest of the items inside of it. As many Ziplocs and resealable containers as I can find. Several large contractor trash bags for multiple purposes. An alcohol burning stove would be good to have, you could purchase fuel for it, and there are not going to be too many sources of supply for gas bottles, refined petroleum products, or the like.

At least a half dozen BICs and a few waterproofed matches with a Sparklite, and some tinder would be essential tools for firestarting.

You have to have salt. I would try to start with at least a year’s worth, and would add to it at every opportunity. It is an excellent barter item. Pepper, hot sauce, spices are good, and do not weigh too much. Tabasco could help cover the flavor of unsavory things you will have to eat. Add hard rations as weight permits. Pemmican, jerky, ramen, rice, beans, flour, corn meal, sugar, powdered drink mix, hard candies, etc.

Boots will be critical. One really good pair, freshly broken in, with good footbeds, and perhaps a spare set of soles that could be tacked or sewn in during the winter months to repair them and combat boredom. A pair of shower shoes or moccasins could come in handy, should weight permit. Several good pairs of heavy socks, like the Ingenius, and a couple of pair of thin dress socks would be essential.

As many synthetic and silk undergarments as weight will allow would be welcome. Wool or fleece layers, a good tight windshirt, like the PCU or Arktis, with a water- repellant, wind resistant outer layer of a permeable membrane would be my choice for clothing. I think that woodland BDU or Crye would be a good camo, perhaps something more toward a tan if you were trying to remain low-profile when seen or you were taking a desert route. One or two spare pants and shirts. A couple of wicking t-shirts. At least one pair of winter gloves or mittens, and a set of working gloves. Don’t forget shading hats as well as warm headgear. The old Army issue sewing kit would be ideal for light clothing repairs. Don’t forget a couple of the microfiber towels for cleanups. Vacuum pack all compressible items to same space, and save the bags after opening for additional uses. I would ensure that I had at least one good pair of sunglasses, and two pairs of prescription glasses, if necessary, with a repair
kit.

For shelter, a light two-man tent seems to be about right to me, along with a good sleeping bag, bivvy cover, liner, and Thermarest or pad.

The collapsible saws are very handy, but are no substitute for an axe. Different tools, different purposes. I would take a smallish camp axe, the saw, hacksaw blades, a file or two, sharpening gear, and an e-tool as the minimum.

I would probably get stupid with the knives and take a ton. If I had to be limited to a reasonable number, I would take my Harsey Reaper or Brend #2, a small 4” or so fixed blade for food prep, skinning, etc., my large Sebenza, and my Leatherman Charge Ti. If weight permitted, I would consider a second multi-tool as a spare. It is small and if you lost the first one and had no spare, life would get a lot harder. You could probably get a large Bowie type or an axe forged for you by a blacksmith. You will not be able to make a Leatherman.

550 cord is very handy, but 500’ is a half of a roll. A little 100 mph tape could fix a lot of problems as well as several tubes of Crazy Glue, and a tube of Shoe Goo or the equivalent. Add a roll of electrical tape as well. A fistful of assorted zip-ties. Maybe a small container of nails, tacks, screws, fasteners, etc. A few jumpers with electrical wire and alligator clips for electronic emergencies and transferring power. A hundred feet or so of snare wire to lash things up and catch dinner, and some premade snares. Several small bungies would be nice, and a short length of climbing rope, maybe 50’ of 10mm kermantle with a few pieces of climbing hardware.

[The Reaper]

I would want large scale JOG type maps 1:250,000 to 1:1,000,000 of the area I would be travelling through 5-20 sheets, total, probably detailed coverage of the route chosen and perhaps 100 miles on either side of it, in the event of natural disasters, detours, etc., annotated with settlements, trading points, water sources, native tribes and their settlements, languages spoken, migratory game routes, etc. Possibly some imagery of key areas. Waterproofed map weight cannot exceed five pounds. The rest, detailed down to 1:24,000, has to be on electronic media. I would take a Silva Ranger or two, and three or four smaller compasses for backups and trading. My Casio Triple–Sensor solar chargable watch would be my first choice for a watch.

I would take several small LED flashlights, a couple of headlights (one large Petzl and one small), and would consider a very compact NVD should weight and space allow. All would have to be AA or 123 powered to reduce battery requirements. I would take several micro-lights, maybe a fistful to barter. A candle lantern would be nice to take the edge off the chill in the tent and could use period candles when yours burned out.

A rollable/foldable solar charger with adaptors for the spare batteries and devices would be necessary, and would ride atop my ruck during the day.

For electronics, either a large toughened PDA or a micro laptop with the largest hard drive available, with detailed maps, language and cultural data, an almanac, weather patterns, game migration, edible flora and fauna, useful facts,survival manuals and books, and as many movies and songs as I could cram in. Back up important files to thumbdrives. You do not want to be walking in a potentially hostile environment tuned out and listening to your tunes, but an IPOD could make a good tool for learning languages or combating boredom in the winter months.

I would look for the best set of mini-binos available, and take them. If I was really hurting on weight, at least a monocular.

Fish are an easy source of food. I would take a small kit of tackle, a couple hundred feet of Spider Wire, and as noted elsewhere, a net.

I would bring a full shaving kit, to include dental hygiene, soap, shampoo, a razor, shaving brush, a comb, scissors, mirror, towel, and a roll of TP in a zip-loc bag. I would seek additional paper products when at a settlement. Hygiene is essential to health in this environment.

I would bring a very robust med kit, with vitamins, lots of analgesics, betadine, prescription meds (especially pain killers and antibiotics), foot care, bandages, trauma kit, dental emergency kit, minor surgery set, splints, cold remedies, etc. In fact, someone with the proper training might even be able to move from tribe to tribe as a sort of healer. This could have secondary effects though, from either losing patients, or saving too many and becoming indispensible.

Issued gear would be the digi cam, with AA rechargeable batteries and spare flash cards, download cable, digital recorder with AAs, and the PDA with all chargers, cables, etc.

What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you?

I would start with mostly modern gear, and add period items as needed. Obviously modern firearms, ammo, edged tools, fabrics, lights, firestarters, and electronics are essential. Period items usable could be food, fuel, candles, some clothing, etc.

What are your priorities?

Security, shelter, water, food, health, closing on the OBJ.

How will you carry it?

Kifaru ruck and on person.

What firearms will you take?

As far as weapons go, I think that the best combo of dealing with hostile natives, thugs, large predators, and game animals of all sizes is a .308 battle rifle. An M1A, FAL, HK-91, or AR type rifle would be more than adequate. I would add a good low mag optic in the 1-5x range, like the Nightforce, in a solid mount. You should not need more than three or four mags, max, and 200 rounds or so, call it 180 Premium JHP hunting rounds and 20 tracer. You should not be plinking at rabbits or learning how to shoot with it. The rifle is for dangerous game, large game, or defense against human predators. For a two year trip, to need to engage 200 targets, you planned poorly, are exceptionally unlucky, or are a bad shot. The 200 rounds of rifle ammo alone are 12 lbs or so. For a side arm, I would take a semi-auto target .22LR, with an integral suppressor, three spare mags, and 1,000 rounds of ammo, mixed HV .22LR HPs and subsonic match. That is your working gun. Just for giggles, throw in a .22LR NAA Mini-Revolver as a hideout gun. Some Break-Free CLP, a toothbrush, and a couple of bore snakes should do for maintenance. Those looking at bolt guns should at least consider a military design like a Mauser, SMLE, or Springfield for its ruggedness and durability over commercial hunting rifles.

How much ammo, accessories, etc.?

See above.

What edged tools do you take?

The collapsible saws are very handy, but are no substitute for an axe. Different tools, different purposes. I would take a smallish camp axe, the saw, hacksaw blades, a file or two, sharpening gear, and an e-tool as the minimum.

I would probably get stupid with the knives and take a ton. If I had to be limited to a reasonable number, I would take my Harsey Reaper or Brend #2, a small 4” or so fixed blade for food prep, skinning, etc., my large Sebenza or T-3, and my Leatherman Charge Ti. If weight permitted, I would consider a second multi-tool as a spare. It is small and if you lost the first one and had no spare, life would get a lot harder.

What navigational aids do you take?

I would want large scale JOG type maps of the area I would be travelling through, probably detailed coverage of the route chosen and perhaps 100 miles on either side of it, in the event of natural disasters, detours, etc., annotated with settlements, trading points, water sources, native tribes and their settlements, languages spoken, migratory game routes, etc. Possibly some imagery of key areas. Waterproofed map weight cannot exceed five pounds. The rest has to be on electronic media. I would take a Silva Ranger or two, and three or four smaller compasses for backups and trading. Add a half dozen protractors, those things always seem to get lost. A set of pace beads would be helpful, but you can make them from anything. My Casio Triple –Sensor solar chargable watch would be my choice of a watch.

What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey?

Probably even, for an SF guy with the right gear and a good prep. No better than that due to the unknown hazards, and the ever present Murphy waiting to twist your ankle, give you a snakebite, catch a fever, strand you in the mountains during winter, in the desert during an extended drought, lose your ruck in the river, drown you, hit you with lightning, have you hit by a swarm of bees, give you food poisoning,
crypto, giardia, etc.

What do you do in the 30 days before you leave?

I would spend the 30 days making and breaking camp every night, refreshing my land nav skills, testing my gear, toughening my conditioning, working on hunting skills, and practicing my game catching, preparation, and cooking skills. I would get an inoculation for every disease possible, and all of the dental treatment needed. My initial efforts would be toward an area study and a map recon of potential routes. In my spare time, I would be studying history, culture, language, edible plants and animals, stellar navigation, survival, etc. As soon as my route selection had narrowed it down to a couple of COAs, I would overfly the routes in a small plane, them drive the primary looking for landmarks, terrain features, river crossings, water sources, etc.

I would look for a southern route, probably along the Charleston-LA or SD corridor, and would look for handrails to keep me on the right track. The NC route goes through the highest mountains east of the Mississippi, and too far south and you have to cross way too many water obstacles. The western part of the route requires crossing mountains, deserts, or both. A good plan should select for regular availability of water and use of known passes through the mountains. I would plan to avoid hostile tribes, take advantage of settlements, plentiful game and travel along rivers whenever possible.

Any smokers or dippers would be well advised to use this time to quit, or lose mission essential gear for smokes or dip, only to run out somewhere along the way and have a nicotine withdrawal attack. Same with alcohol or drugs.

I would take a pack of playing cards, though.

Hope that helps explain another perspective. Anyone else got any ideas?

TR

[nmap]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Anyone else got any ideas?
TR

Sir, I wonder why a betalight or two wouldn't be worthwhile? They're reasonably available in Europe, and available here to military and law enforcement personnel. Exit markers are even smaller (and lighter), available to civilians, and provide some light. Held in an open palm, they provide enough light to read a map, or a little text. I would think spares would make unique trade goods, so long as one could avoid accusations of sorcery.

An example, the SM166, can be seen HERE. They're made of a small glass tube charged with a little tritium, all encased in a durable plastic envelope. The half-life of 7 years should be sufficient.

[The Reaper]

What does it weigh?

What does it do that a Photon Micro-light and a few spare batteries will not?

TR

[gagners]

TR-

Looks pretty comprehensive. Any idea what it all would weigh?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by gagners

TR-

Looks pretty comprehensive. Any idea what it all would weigh?

I haven't added it up, but I own most of it already and have taken it to the field before. Frankly, I did not see to many luxuries there for an unsupported solo journey of 2,500 miles in a wilderness with elevations from below sea level to more than 12,000 feet, full climate extremes from 50 below to 125 degrees.

Any deletions would have to be made up for during the period, and giving up a3 ounce titanium cup on infil, to replace it with a 10 ounce steel one when you get there, is a false economy.

I think that I have gone light on the ammo, but could assume further risk there if necessary. My concern would be burning 20 or 30 rounds in a single engagement and potentially coming up short later.

The clothing and shelter are already far lighter than what you will find there, and if you do not acquire tentage till winter comes, you will be humping a lot more weight than what I listed.

Hope that answers the mail.

TR

[nmap]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

What does it weigh?

What does it do that a Photon Micro-light and a few spare batteries will not?

TR

Sir, the weight is 18.6 grams for the SM166. The advantage is that it does not require batteries and has no mechanical elements, such as a switch, which might be fouled by dust, mud, or other debris. Finally, it is not affected by temperature or other environmental conditions.

The Photon gives a much brighter light. I can see benefits in that. But if it was a dark night, on flat terrain, bright lights might attract unwanted attention.

[Go Devil]

Still sorting this out, haven't had much available time.

300 Day Crossing of Continental U.S.



ROUTE: (Haven't solidified point of origin or destination yet.) Westerly to meet head waters of Ohio River.
Meet Mississippi River, continue South to North end
of Mississippi State.
Move Westerly on Northern borders of Texas,NM, and
Arizona.
Utilizing modern topographic data and interstate
routs through passes.

MOVEMENT: Night movement over open expanses and arid
environments. Avoiding natives if possible, not likely.

SCHEDULE: 3rds, 1 per mountain range.

WATER: Daily Hydration Pack, 2ea. Collapsible 5gal water
container. Collapsible 2QT canteen, 2ea. Filtration pump and hose.
2qt cooking pot with spoon.

STORES: Salt,. . . . . . . ? Energy Bar of sorts...

PROCUREMENT: Small game; Coon, Groundhog, squirrel.
Large game if nessesary. Fish and turtle.

FIREARMS: .308 M1, .. I will trade the 20GA for a 22LR SA Rifle.

EDGED TOOLS: Hatchet, 2ea. Axe, 1ea. CRKT M16-10KZ, 20ea
Sharpener...

GEAR: Kifaru EMR with load bearing (CHAIR) extension. Misc. webbing, poly
thread, needles, zip-ties, duct-tape, super glue.


Still working.

[x-factor]

I'd be curious to hear from someone (18Ds?) if "fattening up" (overeating so as to up your body fat a couple of percent and give you a little margin for error in the nutrition department) a little in the pre-launch month would be advisable.

On the imagery thing...if you're going to carry a microlaptop you can carry UNCLASS imagery of the whole country at a very good resolution. However, the utility of doing so would largely compromised by the 300 years between target and collection. Still, for certain areas it may be useful.

The same thing is true for the maps. Any map you carry is going to need to be CUSTOM made, extrapolated back to 1700 based on historical sources, hydrographic-topographic-geologic research, etc. Honestly, the more I think about this, I don't know if you could do a decent job on the IPB in 30 days unless you had a fairly significant intel staff of subject matter experts already lined up.

[Pete]

Father Marquette with Louis Jolliet came down the Mississippi in bark canoes past the location that would be St Louis in 1673. They wrote that they were well recieved by the Indians in that area.

The Jamestown settlement (greater) area was estimated to have around 70,000 people in 1697.

By around 1740 the Carolinas were estimated to have over 100,000.

It is an interesting period in the "New World History".

Edited to add - The Hudson Bay Company was formed around 1670.

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by Pete

Father Marquette with Louis Jolliet came down the Mississippi in bark canoes past the location that would be St Louis in 1673. They wrote that they were well recieved by the Indians in that area.

The Jamestown settlement (greater) area was estimated to have around 70,000 people in 1697.

By around 1740 the Carolinas were estimated to have over 100,000.

It is an interesting period in the "New World History".

Edited to add - The Hudson Bay Company was formed around 1670.

Quality IPB. We're finally getting people to look at the "human" terrain. X-factor mentioned the fur trapping "industry" and Pete is the first to followup on it. Large portions of North America were already fairly well explored by 1700. So far, based on the extant discussions, the major modifications to my own list are to include a silenced .22 pistol, ammo for same, and a quality set of "scout" binos.