Magazines and mag carriers for M4...

Greetings,

I've just signed up for a Bushmaster Carbine course at Blackwater and it appears I am in need of some gear for the course.

I spoke with the rep there and he recommended I bring 3-4 high capacity magazines and the means to access them quickly and a 3 point sling. He recommended belt mounted kydex magazine carriers or this piece of black water gear...

http://www.blackwatergear.com/pc-17-...k-carbine.aspx

From posts here I know that Blackhawk makes garbage, but I've never read anything here about Blackwater's stuff. I'd like avoid dropping money on stuff that will be falling apart one week after I've bought it. I've never needed any high speed gear like this so I have little/no experience in this arena.

The descriptor is:

"The course is designed to develop understanding and proficiency with a tactical carbine. Students will progress from basic handling and marksmanship skills to advanced shooting drills. This course focuses on techniques uesd in a urban environment."

I've searched through the forums a bit, found a few articles on making your own Kydex holsters and plate carriers. Is kydex even the way to go? I don't think I need a full on plate carrier for this but maybe I'm wrong?

If anyone could recommend some solid mfg or specific items I would be greatly indebted. Thanks in advance.

j

[The Reaper]

Their gear is made for them by Michaels of Oregon, opinions may vary, but I would not consider that in the top tier of fine nylon gear makers, especially considering the price.

I would go to Eagle, SO Tech, Tactical Tailor, Eggroll, Paraclete, etc.

Just my ,02, YMMV.

TR

[eggroll]

Reaper,

Thanks for the Plug.... Just left a msg on your machine, lets chat sometime.

EGG

[ChandlerSniper]

I have had very good luck using the Blade Tech belt pouches for the AR. I use the ones with the Tec-Lock so I don`t need to remove my belt to reconfigure them if I need to. I sell quite a few of them for the 3 gun guys as well. They aren`t very expensive and very durable. You can fit 2 on your belt and still have room for pistol mags as well.

CS#158

[NousDefionsDoc]

What are you training for?

I'm taking the Bushmaster carbine course because I'm currently designing the shooting component in a war game/urban simulation program and I need to learn about shooting carbines. How the eye focuses, what it feels like when it fires, etc., etc.

A consultant we're using used to teach at Blackwater and got me into the class for free. He was going to lend me a lot of his stuff but I was afraid I'd screw it up, not to mention he used to carry a Blackhawk plate carrier and I was really worried it would get damaged.

I ended up getting a holster and a mag carrier system from Eagle as was recommended. I take the course late in January 06.

j

[optactical]

Screwing up good tactical gear is actually pretty hard to do. I am sure if this guy was an instructor for tactical firearms courses then he is using some of the best kit that is available, and that the possibility of you screwing it up is not really an issue.

I would go with his rig, especially if it is modular, then you can have him or one of the instructors there help you modify it based on where your personal sweet spots are and how you develop your muscle memory for shooting and reloading.

Tactical gear is expensive, if you have been offered to use someone else's for a short duration course, then by all means use it. Unless you wish to pursue shooting after it is done, there is no reason to spend the 200-300 bones for a good rig just to never use it again.

Originally Posted by optactical

I am sure if this guy was an instructor for tactical firearms courses then he is using some of the best kit that is available, and that the possibility of you screwing it up is not really an issue.

Well most of his stuff is Blackhawk and all I've read here was about how much that stuff falls apart. I just didn't want to take a chance.

Originally Posted by optactical

I would go with his rig, especially if it is modular, then you can have him or one of the instructors there help you modify it based on where your personal sweet spots
are and how you develop your muscle memory for shooting and reloading. Tactical gear is expensive, if you have been offered to use someone else's for a short duration course, then by all means use it. Unless you wish to pursue shooting after it is done, there is no reason to spend the 200-300 bones for a good rig just to never use it again.

I think everything (holster, mag carriers for the pistol and the Eagle rhodesian) ran under $200. I shoot pistols around 1x a month for now so those items won't be wasted. The other item...well who knows. I've always been interested in learning to use a carbine, independent of my career. Maybe it's something I will pursue some day ^_^

Regardless I appreciate the advice.

j

[Peregrino]

eva05 - Optactical has given you excellent advice. Do not waste money on equipment you don't have a legitimate long-term use for. Borrow your buddy's gear (if it can be adjusted to fit properly) and use the snot out of it. If it breaks and it was your fault - replace the broken stuff and thank him for saving you hundreds of dollars on equipment you're likely to never use again. If you do want to get your own kit later, think of it as a test drive. Most of us got our "test drives" at government expense which significantly reduces the cost of figuring out what really works (and even that varies depending on circumstances). The good stuff is relatively expensive (you get what you pay for) which is why hobbyists (AirSoft/paintball/etc.) purchase less expensive knockoffs of the pro level gear. FWIW - Peregrino

[longtab]

Good kit is [thankfully] getting easier to find, but the prices don't seem to be dropping much. Heck I borrow gear all the time from buddies. Just making up the Ranger school packing list from scratch will dig deep into the pockets as a young CPL. I think every phase of the Q-Course and post-Q schools I've borrowed some piece of kit. Granted I have good kit of my own now, but its always some nit-noid POS that'll get ya... like who wears issue brown skivies anymore?

When you're in the military, does the Army provide this stuff for you or does it come out of your pockets?

As I mentioned, I did grab a Rhodesian from Eagle, but maybe I'll check out my friend's platecarrier when he comes home for X-mas.

He is already loaning me his EoTech and a few M4 magazines.

j

[The Reaper]

Until a few years ago, even SF was issued the finest Korean War and Vietnam era gear the lowest bidder could provide.

Finally, SOF started buying commercial off the shelf, as the soldiers had been doing and the issued gear is not bad now.

If you want the latest and greatest HSLD kit, you still have to buy it. Procurement is usually 5-10 years behind the comparable civilian gear.

TR

TR

I find that so depressing

I guess it's good the military is finally issuing you folks decent equipment...I'll never understand why you spend tons of money selecting and training individuals only to short change them on tools they need.

j

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by eva05

I guess it's good the military is finally issuing you folks decent equipment...I'll never understand why you spend tons of money selecting and training individuals only to short change them on tools they need.j

Because you won't find any sort of agreement on gear from the field.

All it takes is asking the crew here who likes kydex and other molded polymer pieces of kit and who doesn't. Even if you found a majority liking one over the other, then start asking what features they want on a holster, sling, magazine pouches etc.

The discussion will go on for a while -- probably ten to fifteen years -- which is why the military is ten to fifteen years behind the civilian world in such equipment matters.

Gene