After thoughts of our most recent shooting

[Smokin Joe]

I didn't want to hijack the house gun thread but I said I would update you guys when I knew something so here it is:

Last Sunday we had a barricaded suspect who took a couple of shots at his brother. When our Deputies arrived he didn’t want to come out and shortly after a perimeter was set up he began shooting at officers.

Due to the residential setting and close proximity of Officers on the perimeter Officers on scene returned fire with “Tactical” Buckshot. A reduced recoil 12 gauge shotgun shell designed to pattern 9 .32 cal pellets on an 18 inch silhouette at 25 yards.

It was a pretty good 2 way range for about 20 minutes…until the suspect tried to sneak out the back door. He then leveled a pistol at the rear perimeter. He was engaged with 3 rounds of buckshot from a single Officer on the perimeter. The suspect then fled back into the house, shortly there after he surrendered and was taken to the hospital.

Upon my arrival at the E.R. suspect had six entrance wounds from the buckshot. 2 in his left hand, 1 in his left elbow, 1 in the outside of his bicep exiting through the front of his bicep, 1 in the tri-cep, and 1 that grazed his back. None of these are life threatening.

During the debrief this is what I learned. Suspect was in his house with the curtains drawn and would randomly fire out of his house at the spot lights around the house.

After about 5 minutes of the suspect firing at Officers, suppressing fire was used to try and get a gas gun close enough to the house in order to launch gas canisters in to the residents. The perimeter was from 15 to 40 yards around the house. The only time anyone had a clean shot at the suspect is when he stepped out the back.

The Officer who shot the suspect stated this. “I saw him come out the backdoor; he pointed his pistol at us. I brought the shotgun up and couldn’t see a fucking thing.” “No front sight just pure black, so I just started shooting. After my third round he was back in the house.” This Officer was at 35 yards when he engaged the suspect with an 18inch Remington 870P with bead sights and no weapon light.

[El Cid]

I've got a tritium "bead" front sight on my shotgun. //shrug//

[AngelsSix]

The Officer who shot the suspect stated this. “I saw him come out the backdoor; he pointed his pistol at us. I brought the shotgun up and couldn’t see a fucking thing.” “No front sight just pure black, so I just started shooting. After my third round he was back in the house.” This Officer was at 35 yards when he engaged the suspect with an 18inch Remington 870P with bead sights and no weapon light.

Can you say adrenaline??

[Goggles Pizano]

Glad everyone who matters is g2g Joe!

Question; did the officers with shotguns have slug rounds they could have transitioned to after placement on the perimeter, or was buck all they had (or all they were ordered to load)? Not knowing their backdrop, type of residence (read trailer), and the set up of the perimeter I thought I'd ask.

[The Reaper]

Hence the need for a good weapons light.

The cost of outfitting every weapon on the department with lights would be less than the medical bill or usual lawsuit.

TR

[Smokin Joe]

Originally Posted by Angelsix

Can you say adrenaline??

Maybe, I would say the most contributing factors where.
1. It was 0400
2. Zero moon or other environmental illumination (so dark it was difficult to move with out NVG's or some sort of light source)
3. No street lights around
4. No illuminated sights
5. No weapon light

Originally Posted by Goggles Pizano

Glad everyone who matters is g2g Joe!

Question; did the officers with shotguns have slug rounds they could have transitioned to after placement on the perimeter, or was buck all they had (or all they were ordered to load)? Not knowing their backdrop, type of residence (read trailer), and the set up of the perimeter I thought I'd ask.

Slugs were available but, with the incident being what it was and the fact that suppressing fire had to be used intially to get the tactical guys close enough to get gas into the house. Buck shot was what everyone was order to use due to limited penetration. It wasn't a trailer but it was a smaller house 1700 or 1800 sq ft single story home. Track style, so not a lot of lumber in the house to stop rounds. The suspect inside had closed all of the blinds and turned off all of the interior lights. The only time anyone got a fix on him was when his rounds came out the houses windows. Then you could only locate him by the puff's of glass that looked like puffs of smoke in the spot lights illumination.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Hence the need for a good weapons light.

The cost of outfitting every weapon on the department with lights would be less than the medical bill or usual lawsuit.

TR

I 100% agree Sir. Its too bad the admin think this is an insolated incident. Even though this incident is identical to 3 other incidents (expect for the continous 2 way range) we have responded to in 8 months. Unfortunatly the message the admin is sending and what the line staff is recieving is very clear: Ain't nothing gonna change until a good guy dies! Maybe then we will revaluate how we do things.

Its pretty damn frustrating. All of us are pinching pennies so we can pony up and purchase our own gear. I.E. rifle plates, MICH's, and long gun lights. because the boss won't.