SEAL Team 7 Bad Boys

Divemaster · 07-25-2019, 00:14

Navy SEAL platoon kicked out of Iraq for drinking alcohol while deployed, officials say

By Dan Lamothe July 24 at 8:45 PM
The commander of a U.S. Special Operations task force in Iraq has sent home a platoon of Navy SEALs for drinking while deployed, U.S. defense officials said, the latest discipline incident that has emerged for an elite force relied upon heavily by the Pentagon.

U.S. Special Operations Command said in a statement Wednesday night that the platoon was forced out early to San Diego by the commander of the task force, Maj. Gen. Eric T. Hill, “due to a perceived deterioration of good order and discipline within the team during non-operational periods” of their deployment.

“The Commander lost confidence in the team’s ability to accomplish the mission,” the statement said. “Commanders have worked to mitigate the operational impact as this SEAL platoon follows a deliberate redeployment.”

The statement did not state what led to the decision, but two defense officials with knowledge of the issue said alcohol was involved. The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the SEALs violated General Order No. 1, which bans alcohol use.

The SEALs were members of SEAL Team 7, which has headquarters in San Diego when not deployed, one of the defense officials said. It is not yet clear whether the SEALs could face criminal charges or administrative punishment of some kind. The unit is still under investigation, the officials said.

Cmdr. Tamara Lawrence, a spokeswoman for Naval Special Warfare Command, said in a statement on Wednesday night that her unit is “actively reinforcing” with the entire force “basic leadership, readiness, responsibility and ethical principles that must form the foundation of special operations.”

“Leaders at all levels must lead in a way that sustains and sharpens that foundation,” she said. “Discipline is a competitive advantage, and enforcing those standards is critical to our success on the battlefield.”

Rest of article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.d206f29c38d1

Astronomy · 07-25-2019, 01:18

Interesting.

I'm reminded of the old SF adage:

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying.
If you got caught, you weren't trying hard enough.

These guys probably silhouetted themselves with gefuckery that invited a command hammering. Or perhaps somebody was looking for a handy excuse to relieve someone... and the alcohol issue was simply convenient.

If everyone that violated GO #1 over the last 30+ years had been similarly DXed, there'd be damn little wartime SOF Operator experience left in the force. Like ordering people not to fuck, it's always been a blazingly stupid rule... and one routinely ignored. Sometimes by hypocritical folks at high rank...the very ones charged with meting out UCMJ punishment for violators.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. I've met WWII vets who fought drunk every chance they got...from Normandy to VE Day.

The thing is, that most of our people can handle themselves, and not allow moderate imbibing to interfere with mission, duty hours, or a deployment. The same way they behave back in CONUS. But there's always a few alcoholics or party animals who can't. Just as is found everywhere else in life.

A long time ago, it was called Big Boy Rules. Things were self-policed at most levels.

If you treat adults like children, they'll occasionally act like children. It's human nature... no matter how carefully you select your personnel.

Many of our allies don't play the same game. They apply common sense to the equation. Their troops can have an occasional damn drink while they're downrange. They are expected to be sober when working... and somehow manage to do just that.

GO#1 always was (and still is) a ridiculous proscription. It's OK for US forces to drink while stationed in Qatar (an Islamic country), but not OK to drink in Iraq (another Islamic country). Or, it's OK for certain SOF types to drink while conducting certain missions in the Balkans, or all of our NATO allies to operate unit bars/clubs in the same place.... but US CF troops forbidden to even look at a beer for the duration of a deployment.

I have no personal need for alcohol whatsoever. It's just not part of my lifestyle. But I hate seeing institutionalized stupidity.

Not a defense of the NSW guys (who might very well have been out of control). Merely some observations about human behavior and rote leadership styles (bereft of critical thinking).

miclo18d · 07-25-2019, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astronomy

Interesting.

I'm reminded of the old SF adage:

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying.
If you got caught, you weren't trying hard enough.

These guys probably silhouetted themselves with gefuckery that invited a command hammering. Or perhaps somebody was looking for a handy excuse to relieve someone... and the alcohol issue was simply convenient.

If everyone that violated GO #1 over the last 30+ years had been similarly DXed, there'd be damn little wartime SOF Operator experience left in the force. Like ordering people not to fuck, it's always been a blazingly stupid rule... and one routinely ignored. Sometimes by hypocritical folks at high rank...the very ones charged with meting out UCMJ punishment for violators.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. I've met WWII vets who fought drunk every chance they got...from Normandy to VE Day.

The thing is, that most of our people can handle themselves, and not allow moderate imbibing to interfere with mission, duty hours, or a deployment. The same way they behave back in CONUS. But there's always a few alcoholics or party animals who can't. Just as is found everywhere else in life.

A long time ago, it was called Big Boy Rules. Things were self-policed at most levels.

If you treat adults like children, they'll occasionally act like children. It's human nature... no matter how carefully you select your personnel.

Many of our allies don't play the same game. They apply common sense to the equation. Their troops can have an occasional damn drink while they're downrange. They are expected to be sober when working... and somehow manage to do just that.

GO#1 always was (and still is) a ridiculous proscription. It's OK for US forces to drink while stationed in Qatar (an Islamic country), but not OK to drink in Iraq (another Islamic country). Or, it's OK for certain SOF types to drink while conducting certain missions in the Balkans, or all of our NATO allies to operate unit bars/clubs in the same place.... but US CF troops forbidden to even look at a beer for the duration of a deployment.

I have no personal need for alcohol whatsoever. It's just not part of my lifestyle. But I hate seeing institutionalized stupidity.

Not a defense of the NSW guys (who might very well have been out of control). Merely some observations about human behavior and rote leadership styles (bereft of critical thinking).

Very well put. When I was in Kandahar there were a lot of European SOF on the compound. They were allowed to drink because they were....well....Europeans...that’s what they do, right? Why not us? ‘Merica! We’ll needles to say we ran the chow hall and good food begets good alcohol! Horse trading.

Just like in your youth, it was more fun to get one over “on the man” and obtain it than drinking it. A case of Kronnenborg lasted 4 months, drinking one or two beers, while cleaning weapons after a week long patrol.

Are SEALS a holes? Sure. Is it fun to show they’re morons? You bet. Getting booted from country for drinking? I guess many of us got lucky!

JJ_BPK · 07-25-2019, 05:06

Someone must be planning a major hit on the SEAL teams.

This story was published on Military.com this AM

Quote:

Navy SEALs Kicked Out of Iraq Over 'Deterioration of Good Order and Discipline'

24 Jul 2019
Military.com | By Gina Harkins

A Naval Special Warfare platoon has been recalled from the war zone after their leader lost trust in their ability to carry out their mission -- an extraordinary move for a command that has faced recent troubling discipline problems.

The commander of the Special Operations Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve in Iraq ordered a SEAL team platoon to return to San Diego "due to a perceived deterioration of good order and discipline within the team during non-operational periods," officials with U.S. Special Operations Command announced in a Wednesday night release.

"The Commander lost confidence in the team's ability to accomplish the mission," the release adds. "... All Department of Defense personnel are expected to uphold proven standards and to comply with laws and regulations. Alleged violations are thoroughly investigated."

While officials did not say in the statement which SEAL team the unit belonged to, the San Diego Union-Tribune reported it was the West Coast-based SEAL Team 7. The SEALs were sent home for drinking while deployed, the Washington Post reported.

Related content:

The Navy SEALs Don't Have a Disciplinary Problem: Official
Navy SEAL Gets Year in Brig for Hazing Death of Green Beret
Corps Affirms Full Exoneration for MARSOC Unit Rocked by Scandal

The elite team was involved in the military's fight against the Islamic State group. Commanders in Iraq have worked to fill the void left by the SEAL platoon's sudden departure, officials said.

No additional details about the cause were immediately available. Officials with SOCOM and Navy Special Warfare Command could not be reached for comment.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...C=eb_190725.nl

**Box** · 07-25-2019, 06:36

It wasn't just a news release - USSOCOM posted about it on the Official Twitter account for the U.S. Special Operations Command

https://twitter.com/USSOCOM?ref_src=...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

How hard to you have to stomp on your cock for USSOCOM to punk you out on Twitter?

I cant be convinced that this is a "routine" violation of GO#1 - some dudes come back from a nasty tick with all of their pieces intact and decide to do a few shots of 'Listerine' to decompress...
...no no no amigo, some classic Saturday-Night-Live-Skit level shenanigans have to go down before SOCOM tweets about you on the interwebz.

JimP · 07-25-2019, 07:09

Guys - guarandamnedteed this ain't about drinking or violating GO #1. We've all worked with these cats - we all know they routinely violate GO 1 and the command knows about it.

This is about something much bigger. Mark my words. The fact that they'd break ranks and even go public with this is indicative of much bigger problems.

Badger52 · 07-25-2019, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimP

This is about something much bigger. Mark my words. The fact that they'd break ranks and even go public with this is indicative of much bigger problems.

Given the other kerfuffles it looks like one piece of what is battlefield prep for a Saturday Night Massacre.

Uman · 07-25-2019, 09:54

General Order Number 1 is. a great example of our failed Command Culture in the US Military and Army.

We can give up on Mission Command as that style of command is based on trust, while ours is based on CYA

This is why maneuver warfare did not take hold in the Army or anywhere else in the DOD.

No trust, no mission command, no initiative, no thinking outside the box, just school solutions and our holy doctrine.

Basenshukai · 07-25-2019, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimP

Guys - guarandamnedteed this ain't about drinking or violating GO #1. We've all worked with these cats - we all know they routinely violate GO 1 and the command knows about it.

This is about something much bigger. Mark my words. The fact that they'd break ranks and even go public with this is indicative of much bigger problems.

Exactly.

Texas_Shooter · 07-25-2019, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimP

Guys - guarandamnedteed this ain't about drinking or violating GO #1. We've all worked with these cats - we all know they routinely violate GO 1 and the command knows about it.

This is about something much bigger. Mark my words. The fact that they'd break ranks and even go public with this is indicative of much bigger problems.

This is all they want you to hear about. They got ahead of it before someone else found out what the real problem was and turned it into a Chief Eddie Gallagher or Staff Sgt. Logan J. Melgar's murder at the hands of Two Seals.

Kraut783 · 07-26-2019, 17:07

The other shoe has dropped....

The Navy reportedly booted SEAL Team 7 out of Iraq after a senior enlisted platoon member allegedly raped a female service member.

https://taskandpurpose.com/the-navy-...service-member

Dateline was just reporting the same tonight on the evening broadcast.

JimP · 07-26-2019, 18:06

stand by....more to follow.....

doctom54 · 07-26-2019, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraut783

The other shoe has dropped....

The Navy reportedly booted SEAL Team 7 out of Iraq after a senior enlisted platoon member allegedly raped a female service member.

https://taskandpurpose.com/the-navy-...service-member

Dateline was just reporting the same tonight on the evening broadcast.

Saw that. Makes more sense.

Basenshukai · 07-26-2019, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctom54

Saw that. Makes more sense.

Well, I guess our instincts were correct, unfortunately.

**Airbornelawyer** · 09-07-2019, 19:52

https://taskandpurpose.com/navy-seal-team-7-relief

Top Navy SEAL admiral fires entire leadership team of SEAL Team 7

Quote:

The top admiral in charge of Naval Special Warfare has fired the entire leadership team of SEAL Team 7 over a "breakdown of good order and discipline," a Navy official told Task & Purpose on Friday.

Cmdr. Edward Mason, the commanding officer of ST7; Lt. Cmdr. Luke Im, the executive officer; and Command Master Chief Hugh Spangler were all relieved of their leadership posts on Friday, said Capt. Tamara Lawrence, a spokeswoman for Naval Special Warfare Command.

The relief was carried out by Rear Adm. Collin Green, the commanding officer of NSW. Lawrence said their relief was "due to a loss of confidence that resulted from leadership failures that caused a breakdown of good order and discipline within two subordinate units while deployed to combat zones."

...