Start of Death Panels?

[Pete]

Start of Death Panels?

I don't think so but hype can be hype.

"US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels' ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...th-panels.html

Does cost have an impact on health decisions? Should it? Is $8,000 per month for one drug too much? Worth it if it works 75% of the time? Not worth it if it works 1% of the time? Where to you draw the line between the two?

Are some worth it and some not?

An ER Nurse in her 30's worth it? An unemployed crack addict in her 40's not worth it?

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Pete

An ER Nurse in her 30's worth it? An unemployed crack addict in her 40's not worth it?

We are truly heading into scary times and slippery slopes.

Should someone who has worked hard to acquire/maintain a job with good health insurance have to choose whether or not to shell out $7500/month for a drug that was considered standard of care until ObamaCare started watching the bottom-line and deemed it too expensive to pick up the bill for the masses and thus coerced an agency to withdraw an indication (as was implied by the article)???

This really fires me up right now, as a close family friend just had recurrence of ther breast cancer and is coming to my hospital to explore options.

[nmap]

Yes, IMO, it is the beginning of death panels.

Also IMO, it is the beginning of a major shift, and one which will continue. It will get a great deal worse in many ways.

We as a nation are heavily in debt. The economy is weak. Responsible people speak of a double-dip recession. Some whisper that we are not in a recession, but rather in a depression that will last for many years - and perhaps decades. Decades in plural. Decades meaning twenty years or more.

We have a demographic bulge - those being the baby boomers. That's me, among tens of millions of others. We are getting older. As we get older, we will get sicker, and we will get quite a lot more expensive.

So....who pays for all that medical care? Not the boomers. Many boomers bought big houses with big mortgages under the theory that houses will always appreciate. Others invested in the stock market via their 401k. That wealth has evaporated. Or, if you prefer, has been destroyed. It is not going to come back anytime soon.

Governments at every level cannot pay for current levels of services. In many instances, government and private pensions are severely underfunded. They promised far more than they can pay - ever.

We see China gaining power economically. The Islamic world is expanding in population and growing in significance on the world stage. Does anyone suppose that the funding needed for our defense can be cut?

Expect to see those death panels. Expect rationing. Expect lifestyle exceptions - those who smoke, are fat, or have various bad habits will be excluded from treatment. Expect limitations in procedures based on age and life expectancy. Those who doubt my veracity might wish to contemplate the U.K.'s National Health Service. (Yes, that means the unemployed crack addict in his 40's will be well taken care of.)

Not to worry - our caring health care system will make a point of educating us about all our options, including hospice care and euthanasia.

The reader will note the absence of smilies. I'm dead serious - pun intended.

[Paslode]

Yep. Last week my Mom's Doctor gave her a script for a blood thinning drug that works much better for her than the generic.....Not covered by Medicare or Insurance. So she can pay $300 a month out of pocket or live with the side effects of the generic.


Yet they have no issue providing 'Free' medical care for illegals. You smoke or chew your screwed, but if your crack addict you have many free options available to you.


It is only a matter of time before we'll have franchise opportunities in Jack Kevorkian Clinics.

[GratefulCitizen]

Medicine will either have to be massively deregulated or we will have to accept a massive black market for medical care.

[Paslode]

What bothers me most is that some person (an accountant of sorts) with graduating scale is or will be determining our worth and needs instead of the doctor. And the doctor will have the shadow of BiG Brother looming over their shoulder 24/7/365 directing in similar fashion as getting off the Auschwitz cattle car and being directed to the left or the right.

Life is becoming quite a commodity.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Paslode

And the doctor will have the shadow of BiG Brother looming over their shoulder 24/7/365 directing in similar fashion as getting off the Auschwitz cattle car and being directed to the left or the right.

No, the doctor won't.
The doctor will practice somewhere else.

Some enterprising company will refurbish an old cargo ship, flag it under another country, and park it 12 miles off shore.
Take a boat ride to see the doctor.

There is already medical tourism in India.
Probably plenty of business opportunities for young M.D.'s wishing to set up shop in Belize.

The world is a smaller place, too much is beyond the coercive power of the federal government.

[Richard]

The world has always operated on the principle of individuals having access to the best medical treatment they can personally afford - I don't see how this hyped-up situation will be any different.

However - YMMV - and so it goes...

Richard's $.02

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Richard

The world has always operated on the principle of individuals having access to the best medical treatment they can personally afford - I don't see how this hyped-up situation will be any different.

However - YMMV - and so it goes...

Richard's $.02

I think we're dealing with a distortion of the principle you mention.

Once upon a time, back when health insurance came into being, lots of people benefited from group health insurance, paid for by the employer. Employers tended to hire healthy young people, so the rates were low - but the benefits were substantially more than most could afford.

Insurance added its own distortion by divorcing actual costs from costs perceived by the user - and this, in turn, distorted medical costs by removing any incentive by the consumer to limit spending.

Oh, but it gets worse. The federal government comes in and requires emergency rooms to treat patients without regard to the ability to pay. So this causes cost shifting to those who can pay - thus the $20 aspirin. Still worse, the insurance agreements with providers (according to my limited understanding) give policy holders discounts denied to private pay patients.

Obamacare will add a further layer of distortion to the existing mess.



Oh, well.

[Oldrotorhead]

I believe mediacal research will move off shorewhere free market pricing will still be possible. There will be less quality control and oversight, I also think that some very good doctors may also go off shore. The Bahamas, Costa Rica, or some where else with nice beaches and good weather. Medicatl vacations my be a growth industry in the near future. Costa Rica or Panama look good to me.

[JAGO]

...and by moving off shore, it will be more difficult to file suit (and it ought to be harder to sue), judgments will not be rendered by 12 people too foolish to get out of jury duty, trial lawyers will be starving, and ... (everybody but the lawyers win!)

I qualify for care at VA - I disenrolled and quit using that as an option because it was substandard for my health issues (both service connected and non-service connected). For instance, the last time I was at a VA clinic for my back injuries and neuropathy, the doctor VA assigned to my case was a specialist in OB/GYN! No comments please, but I kid you not.

Likewise, with my retired ID I can get in space A in a MTF, but it just isn't worth it. Driving for miles, waiting and waiting, alsways seeing different people and noone familiar or following patient progress.

As a result, my wife and I opted to pay for health insurance so that I can get to the doctors I need to see for the care necessary to prolong my life and manage my complications. My wife likes having her own doctor and being able to get referred to specialists when she has issues. We dread this national program when Iwe will be directed to see physicians who are not free to give and prescribe what is indicated or even specialists for the condition indicated.

...I'm saving up for a boat that will make it out to the ship... They'll probably even have a lounge rather than a waiting room
v/r
phil

[tonyz]

KRUGMAN: U.S. NEEDS DEATH PANELS, SALES TAXES
Breitbart
Joel Griffith
Feb 5, 2013

Nobel Prize winning “economist” Paul Krugman spoke at Sixth & I Historic Synagogue in Washington, D.C. last week. During the Q&A session following the lecture, an audience member asked him about the rising national debt.

Earlier in the evening, Krugman had already vocalized his satisfaction at President Obama’s apparent lack of concern over the exploding cumulative deficit. However, in a moment of brutal honesty, the esteemed Princeton professor revealed his long term prognosis.

According to the professor, eventually we do have a problem. That the population is getting older, health care costs are rising…there is this question of how we’re going to pay for the programs. The year 2025, the year 2030, something is going to have to give…. …. We’re going to need more revenue…Surely it will require some sort of middle class taxes as well.. We won’t be able to pay for the kind of government the society will want without some increase in taxes… on the middle class, maybe a value added tax…And we’re also going to have to make decisions about health care, doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits . So the snarky version…which I shouldn’t even say because it will get me in trouble is death panels and sales taxes is how we do this..

<Snip>

ETA link to video: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=H9u2L...%3DH9u2Lf0DdzA

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...how-we-do-this