01-16-2013, 20:31
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#1
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Guest
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MACVSOG & Project Igloo White....
I am trying to gain more info on the "Hand-Deilivered" Project Igloo White sensors on the trail in Laos. I have been able to find a few declassified documents on the subject but they don't touch on the hand emplaced sensors by SOG RTs. I know about the ADSIDS, Acuubouy, etc., etc. Also, I have info on the diferrent Project names used before "Igloo White" was.
Is there anybody here who actually had delivered these sensors to different target areas in Laos? If so, I'd like to here your story. Feel free to email if you prefer.
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand...MR1408.ch2.pdf
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01-16-2013, 20:42
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#2
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAB32
I am trying to gain more info on the "Hand-Deilivered" Project Igloo White sensors on the trail in Laos. I have been able to find a few declassified documents on the subject but they don't touch on the hand emplaced sensors by SOG RTs. I know about the ADSIDS, Acuubouy, etc., etc. Also, I have info on the diferrent Project names used before "Igloo White" was.
Is there anybody here who actually had delivered these sensors to different target areas in Laos? If so, I'd like to here your story. Feel free to email if you prefer.
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand...MR1408.ch2.pdf
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FYI, I was an instructor in all of the above at Ft. Huachuca in 1969/70.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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01-16-2013, 21:05
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#3
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Guest
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Can we talk; openly or via e-mail?
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01-16-2013, 21:46
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#4
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAB32
Can we talk; openly or via e-mail?
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PM me.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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01-19-2013, 23:10
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#5
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,209
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MAB32
My first question actually deals with the small mines delivered with the sensors via air called "Gravel Mines" and "Button Bombs" that were seeded with the sensors such as the ADSIDS and Acubouy.
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MAB32's question, in his PM to me, is not about the sensors, but about possible AP (gravel) mines dropped with them. My confusion was his use of the term "button bombs". We had sensors called Noiseless Button Bomblets. I've heard of the Gravel Mines but have no experience with them. I'm also interested any any info regarding them and their use with sensor placement.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
Last edited by PSM; 01-19-2013 at 23:22.
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PSM is offline
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01-20-2013, 03:33
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#6
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BANNED USER
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Location: Western NC
Posts: 1,243
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I’m curious if the ASA had any role in the delivery and placement of these sensors, or did they just monitor them?
And to clarify, the 61-63 time frame.
Any links or info regarding the ASA and Igloo White would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by T-Rock; 01-20-2013 at 04:14.
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T-Rock is offline
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01-20-2013, 10:15
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#7
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rock
I’m curious if the ASA had any role in the delivery and placement of these sensors, or did they just monitor them?
And to clarify, the 61-63 time frame.
Any links or info regarding the ASA and Igloo White would be greatly appreciated.
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What's ASA?
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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01-20-2013, 15:08
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#8
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Guest
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www.liveleak.com/view?i=2d4_1271187276
This is a video of the use of "Gravel Mines". They were airdropped as a CBU. While inside the CBU they were made INERT with liquid Freon. Once they warmed up on the ground they were activated. Although the video looks like it is implying that they could be hand delivered, I am doubtful as it would be extremely dangerous to the user. I belief SF used these in a "defensive" nature for both Recon Teams & SF A-Camps that were about to be over-ran.
My interests lay in both the G/Ms; and the little Button Bombs that were suppose to of been airdropped by either a Jolly Green, A-1E, PV-2 Neptune along with the Acubouy, ADSIDs, SIDs, or anyother sensor that used vibration and/or acoustics to mark the sounds when they went off.
I have a picture of what one G/M looks like on the inside. Being an Ordnance afficiendo myself these things are just simply simple like hand & rifle grenades and other small ordnance.
Just to add an opinion and a very humble opinion at that, our M67 is of an old design and very outdated at that to.
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01-20-2013, 15:27
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#9
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Guest
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/106811934/...-December-1969
This is a most interesting document on the subject of "Igloo White, Dyemarker, etc., etc." that can be found on the internet. I am glad that it was de-classified as almost all "Project Checo" reports are. What is really neat is who this report was sent to while it was classified. This included that secret think study group/tank called "(The) RAND Corporation" back then. The pictures are also a nice add. This is also the earliest and first time that I have seen LORAN mentioned.
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01-20-2013, 15:29
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#10
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Guest
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Also, about the ASA being mentioned, I do not believe so. That is if you are thinking that those initials belong to the "Army Security Agency", then I would be doubtful.
Last edited by MAB32; 01-20-2013 at 15:32.
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01-20-2013, 16:00
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAB32
http://www.scribd.com/doc/106811934/...-December-1969
This is a most interesting document on the subject of "Igloo White, Dyemarker, etc., etc." that can be found on the internet. I am glad that it was de-classified as almost all "Project Checo" reports are. What is really neat is who this report was sent to while it was classified. This included that secret think study group/tank called "(The) RAND Corporation" back then. The pictures are also a nice add. This is also the earliest and first time that I have seen LORAN mentioned.
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I see that this document is still ASSIFIED, though. 
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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01-20-2013, 16:57
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#12
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BANNED USER
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Sorry for the confusion…, it’s the United States Army Security Agency.
> http://danhornback.com/ultimatesacri...am/ASAsite.htm
Quote:
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Also, about the ASA being mentioned, I do not believe so. That is if you are thinking that those initials belong to the "Army Security Agency", then I would be doubtful.
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I wasn’t sure if the ASA was involved or not in the placement of some of the early sensors via the Radio Research Units during the early years, primarily the 1961-63 timeframe. I think one of the first casualties in the Vietnam War was a member of the ASA, SP4 James T. Davis
http://www.nasaa-home.org/davis/davis.html
It’s hard finding information on this…
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T-Rock is offline
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01-20-2013, 18:13
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#13
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rock
Sorry for the confusion…, it’s the United States Army Security Agency.
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Guess I should have used pink. 
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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01-20-2013, 18:31
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#14
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rock
It’s hard finding information on this…
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Probably a good reason for that.
__________________
"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan
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Dusty is offline
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01-20-2013, 20:13
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#15
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Guest
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Not really hard as we use different sensors today. Back then this was all new technology. It was later or may have been in use at this time in Korea in the DMZ.
What I am hoping to gain here is more insight to anybody who used the HANDSIDS or Hand Delivered Seismic Intrusion Devices. I am interested in their use on or near the Truong Son Route. I believe some of you guys in SOG did do some or most of these type of sensors. I'd like to learn more if you did?
Do you mean hard in finding anything on the ASA or Project Igloo White?
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