4yrs for Facebook Rioter??

[JJ_BPK]

This is a little scary,, I didn't know the UK allows judges to adjudicate hard time without a little more formal review?? The need for swift justice is not in question,, but kangaroo court comes to mind..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14553330
17 August 2011 Last updated at 06:33 ET

Some England riot sentences 'too severe'

John Cooper QC told Newsnight's Kirsty Wark: "This sentence in my view is over the top"

MPs and justice campaigners say some of the sentences given to those involved in the riots in England are too harsh.

On Tuesday two men were jailed for four years for using Facebook to incite riots and another was given 18 months for having a stolen TV in his car.

Liberal Democrat MP Tom Brake said sentences "should be about restorative justice" not retribution.

But Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said tougher sentences would show there were consequences to disorder.

More than 2,770 people have been arrested in connection with last week's riots in a number of English cities.

By Tuesday afternoon, 1,277 suspects had appeared in court and 64% had been remanded in custody. In 2010 the remand rate at magistrates for serious offences was 10%.

On Wednesday, the Metropolitan Police announced that it has charged 1,005 people after 1,733 arrests over the rioting that swept through the capital. The force has a target of 3,000 convictions.

The force's Acting Commissioner Tim Godwin said the investigation was "far from over".

The courts and tribunals service says legal advisers in court have been advising magistrates to "consider whether their powers of punishment are sufficient in dealing with some cases arising from the recent disorder". Magistrates are able to refer cases to crown courts which have tougher sentencing powers.

A spokeswoman from the service said magistrates were independent and did not have to take direction from their legal advisors who are themselves independent of government.

'Lack of proportionality'

Mr Brake told the BBC's Newsnight that some of those convicted had received sentences which would have been different if they had committed the same crime the day before the riots.

He said it should be about restorative justice rather than retribution.

he former chair of the Criminal Bar Association, Paul Mendelle QC, told BBC 5 live: "When people get caught up and act out of character, in a similar way, there is a danger that the courts themselves may get caught up in a different kind of collective hysteria - I'm not suggesting violence or anything like that - but in purporting to reflect the public mood actually go over the top and hand out sentences which are too long and too harsh."

But Mr Pickles told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We need to understand that people for a while thought that this was a crime without consequence - we cannot have people being frightened in their beds, frightened in their own homes for their public safety.

"That is why these kind of exemplary sentences are necessary. I think people would be rightly alarmed if that incitement to riot got off with just a slap on the wrist."

Lord McNally, Liberal Democrat Justice Minister, said the courts must operate independently and warned "it's dangerous when politicians try to do the sentencing".

He said politicians make the laws, police do the arresting and judges do the judging and sentencing.

Cheshire men Jordan Blackshaw, 21, of Marston, and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Warrington, were jailed for four years each after admitting using Facebook to incite disorder, although none actually resulted.


Defence solicitor Chris Johnson said Mr Blackshaw and his family "are somewhat shocked by the sentence and he will be appealing".

The Recorder of Chester, Judge Elgan Edwards, said he hoped the sentences would act as a deterrent to others.

Assistant Chief Constable of Cheshire Police Phil Thompson said it was "easy to understand" the sentence when you consider the impact technology had on the riots.

The Crown Prosecution Service said the offences committed carried maximum sentences of 10 years, but the four-year sentences were the lengthiest related to rioting so far.

Labour MP Paul Flynn wrote on his blog that the government was "throwing away sentencing rules".

"How can this make sense? How does it compare with other crimes? What will it do to prison numbers? This is not government. It's a series of wild panic measures seeking to claw back popularity."

Andrew Neilson, of the Howard League for Penal Reform, said: "A four-year sentence would normally be associated with offences such as holding someone up at knife point, grievous bodily harm, sexual assault, and I'm not sure that the offence in question was really related to those types of offences."

He added that over-sentencing would see more appeals and that the courts and prisons would struggle to cope.

Conservative MP for Stourbridge Margot James said she thought the sentence was reasonable.

"I think the young men involved were inciting a riot, trying to organise the sort of mayhem that we saw on the streets eight nights ago in Salford, which would have put lives at risk and at the very least they distracted the police from trying to deal with that crisis and put a lot of fear into people."
Rule book

Leading criminal barrister John Cooper QC said he believed the sentences were "over the top" and were likely to be overturned by the Court of Appeal.

"What we need to remember here is that there's a protocol for sentencing, and there are rules and procedures in sentencing which make them effective and make them fair.

"What we can't do, in my view, in situations like this, is suddenly throw the rule book away simply because there's a groundswell of opinion."

In another case, three men were jailed for up to two years in relation to the disorder in Manchester and Salford on 9 August. David Beswick, 31, Stephen Carter, 26, both from Salford, and Michael Gillespie-Doyle, 18, from Tameside, all pleaded guilty at earlier hearings.

Sitting at Manchester Crown Court, sentencing Judge Andrew Gilbart QC said: "I have no doubt at all that the principal purpose is that the courts should show that outbursts of criminal behaviour like this will be and must be met with sentences longer than they would be if the offences had been committed in isolation."

Beswick was sentenced to 18 months in prison for handling stolen goods. His friend Tony Whitaker said the punishment was disproportionate, given that he had pleaded guilty straight away.

Not sure what restorative justice is but sounds very PC???

[CombatMuffin]

Just as the article said, its retribution, unfortunately.

A lot of people still believe that simply punching higher numbers on a prison sentence will make them and everyone else behave, which is not always the case.

Now some guys that may have committed a minor offense, will be mixed with some nasty guys in prison. Don't get me wrong though: inciting riots is something serious, but simply slapping prison time is in no way going to help society overcome whatever incited the initial riot sentiment.

[tonyz]

Restorative Justice is described on this university site - there are loads of others.

I must admit I had not heard of it before - you learn something new on this site every day.

http://www.suffolk.edu/research/6953.html

Restorative justice is a broad term which encompasses a growing social movement to institutionalize peaceful approaches to harm, problem-solving and violations of legal and human rights.

These range from international peacemaking tribunals such as the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa to innovations within our criminal justice system, schools, social services and communities.

Rather than privileging the law, professionals and the state, restorative resolutions engage those who are harmed, wrongdoers and their affected communities in search of solutions that promote repair, reconciliation and the rebuilding of relationships. Restorative justice seeks to build partnerships to reestablish mutual responsibility for constructive responses to wrongdoing within our communities.

Restorative approaches seek a balanced approach to the needs of the victim, wrongdoer and community through processes that preserve the safety and dignity of all.

Restorative Justice is Values
Restorative justice is a value-based approach to conflict and harm. These values are often identified as inclusion, democracy, responsibility, reparation, safety, healing and reintegration. But one value is more essential than any other—Respect.

Restorative Justice is Process
For Victims. Restorative responses empower victims by offering them a voice in the process, an opportunity to ask questions and seek answers, afford them a role in decision-making and avenues for healing, restitution and emotional support.

For Wrongdoers. Restorative responses enable wrongdoers to be accountable for their conduct; affords opportunities to make amends and express remorse; offers constructive ways to repair harm; supports making responsible choices; and creates forums for forgiveness, reconciliation and reintegration.

For Communities. Restorative responses re-invest citizens with the power to contribute meaningfully to the resolution of community problems; allows citizens to articulate and affirm the moral standards of the community; provides a forum for addressing the underlying conditions which generate harm; and contributes towards the building of safe, thriving and peaceful communities.

Restorative Justice is PracticeThese practices include:

•Victim-Offender Dialogue
•Family Group Conferencing
•Community/School Conferencing
•Peacemaking Circles
•Reparative Boards
•Truth/ Reconciliation Commissions
•Victim Impact Panels
•Restorative Community Service
•Restitution
•Victim Support/Services
•Reintegration Services

[Pete]

Restorative Justice only works with a wrongdoer who cares.

I'm certain most wrongdoers see it only as scamming the system and being able to continue their life of crime.

[MtnGoat]

I got one this to say.. HELLO.. UK doesn't have a BILL OF RIGHTS!!!

Their Army can roll up into your House if they want.

[Hand]

I am delighted to see the UK bending these people over the table. It may not be 'perfect justice' but damnit, I bet the rest of these idiots sat up and payed attention for a minute. This is a trend that will do nothing but expand unless someone has the testicular fortitude to squash it.

On the other hand, these are just poor misguided, entitlement soaked youths, they wont hurt anything, really.
Right?

[Peregrino]

I think a few Korean shopkeepers with firearms (ala LA's King riots) and bodies stacked in the streets like cordwood, gutters running with blood, would have made the current sentencing row irrellevant - and rioters a little more hesitant next time their buddies get on Facebook and incite a "party".