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Old 11-18-2010, 01:44   #1
incarcerated
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Acquittal on Most Charges Stirs Debate About Terror Trials in Civilian Courts

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...046448352.html

Man Convicted in '98 Attacks

Acquittal on Most Charges Stirs Debate About Terror Trials in Civilian Courts
AFRICA NEWS
NOVEMBER 18, 2010
By CHAD BAY And EVAN PEREZ
NEW YORK—A jury convicted a former Guantanamo detainee of one count of conspiracy in the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, but acquitted him of more than 280 other counts in a case widely seen as a test of the Obama administration's effort to try terror suspects in civilian courts.

Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, 36, of Tanzania, was the first former detainee of the prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba to be tried in a U.S civilian court. He faces 20 years to life in prison.

Mr. Ghailani's acquittal of the vast majority of charges could boost the arguments of those who maintain that military tribunals, and not civilian courts, are the proper venues for major terrorist trials. It also bolsters the view from others who say the security fears that surrounded the decision to try Mr. Ghailani in lower Manhattan were overblown.

The verdict, delivered Wednesday by an anonymous jury of six women and six men, is "a blow to both sides of the debate; neither side comes away with a clean argument for its case," said Robert Chesney, a University of Texas law professor and who served on a Obama Justice Department detainee task force. On one hand, he said, the government can claim some victory with one guilty count, but opponents of civilian trials can't ignore that Mr. Ghailani will likely get a tough sentence.

Mr. Ghailani, who was imprisoned Guantanamo from 2006 to 2009, was charged in connection with two deadly truck bombings outside U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya that killed 224 people and injured thousands more.

Lawyers for Mr. Ghailani had argued that he was duped by people who he thought were his friends into purchasing material used in a bombing outside the U.S. embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. "We still truly believe he is innocent of all of the charges," said Peter Quijano, Mr. Ghailani's lawyer, who said he planned to appeal the conviction, but declined to discuss on what grounds

Mr. Ghailani was transferred from Guantanamo to New York to face trial before political opposition grew against holding major terrorism trials at the courthouse in lower Manhattan just blocks from the site of the World Trade Center.

Attorney General Eric Holder announced plans to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other alleged plotters of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks at the same courthouse, but the White House has now backed off those plans in the face of resistance from lawmakers and city residents.

The Ghailani trial was viewed by top administration officials as a way of showing that civilian courts can bring convictions of top alleged terrorists, and firming up the argument to use both civilian and military trials. No other Guantanamo detainees have yet been transferred, though the administration had identified 44 detainees to be tried in either civilian or military trials.

Proponents of civilian courts have said that they have a greater degree of transparency and precedent. Critics, led by Republicans in Congress, have argued that terror trials should be carried out by military tribunals.

On Wednesday, Matthew Miller, Justice Department spokesman, said: "We respect the jury's verdict and are pleased that Ahmed Ghailani now faces a minimum of 20 years in prison and a potential life sentence for his role in the embassy bombings." The Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara, whose office handled the case, said he would seek the maximum sentence of life without parole during sentencing in January.

However, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., one of the few Republicans who supported the Obama administration's efforts to close Guantanamo, said that military commissions should be used to prosecute terror suspects. "While I respect the judgement of the court, I'm deeply disappointed in the verdict," he said.

"In the court of public opinion, a verdict like this hurts the concept that you need to use all the tools we have against this threat," said Patrick Rowan, who served as chief of the Justice Department's national security division, during the administration of former President George W. Bush, and who has argued in favor of both civilian and military trials.

The Constitution Project, a think tank that examines constitutional issues, said the trial showed that traditional federal criminal courts are capable of handling complicated terrorism cases. "The trial took place in downtown NYC without security problems and proceeded more rapidly than was anticipated," it said in a statement. "Clearly, concerns about security, extreme costs and delay proved to be red herrings."

Prosecutors had alleged that Mr. Ghailani purchased a truck and other materials used in the Tanzanian bombing, including gas tanks containing pure oxygen and acetylene. Mr. Ghailani had been charged with murder in the deaths of people at both embassies. Four others were convicted and received life sentences in a separate 2001 trial in New York stemming from the embassy bombings.

Prior to the start of the five-week trial, the government faced an early setback when U.S. District Judge Lewis A. Kaplan barred prosecutors from using a key witness, because the witness's identity was discovered through harsh interrogation techniques, which his lawyers have said equated to torture, while in CIA custody. On Monday, one juror asked to be excused because she couldn't agree with the other jurors but the judge order them to continue to deliberate and declined a request by the defense for a mistrial.

The verdict could prompt second-guessing of prosecutors' decision not to appeal Judge Kaplan's ruling to exclude testimony of the key witness.

Beyond the battle over Guantanamo, the Ghailani case was a test for how civilian courts would deal with evidence gained from harsh interrogations and detainees who have been held for years without trial at Guantanamo.

Despite the setback, federal terrorism trials already in the works, including against the Nigerian man charged in last year's Christmas Day airliner bombing attempt, are likely to continue, though the suspect in that case has indicated he may plead guilty. More cloudy is the fate of detainees at Guantanamo who the administration wants to move to the U.S. for civilian trials.

One of President Barack Obama's first acts in office was to sign an executive order to close Guantanamo, which he said served as a recruiting tool for Islamist terrorism.

The administration has resettled dozens of prisoners, mostly in Europe, and planned to move remaining detainees to a former state prison in Illinois, which would be outfitted to maximum federal security standards.

On Wednesday, Judge Kaplan told the jurors after the verdict was rendered: "You have demonstrated also that American justice can be rendered calmly, deliberately and fairly by ordinary people who are not beholden to any government, including this one."


Embassy Bombings, And Their Aftermath
Date: Aug. 7, 1998
Location: Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya
Death toll: 224 people, including 12 Americans
Prosecution: U.S. charged 21 people, including Osama bin Laden, in the plot
Prior trial: Four defendants tried in 2001 convicted and sentenced to life in prison.
New verdict: Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani convicted.
Government to seek life sentence.


Write to Chad Bray at chad.bray@dowjones.com
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:35   #2
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So he is guilty for blowing up the building, but not killing the people who were in it at the time.

How much classified info did his lawyers get access to?

This whole thing was discussed on Hugh Hewitt last night. It made for an angry commute home.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:52   #3
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Key witness was excluded from testifying as his identity was discovered as a result of harsh interrogation techniques.

Why in the world was this ridiculous and unprecedented ruling not appealed by Holder?
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:27   #4
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Originally Posted by CoLawman View Post
Key witness was excluded from testifying as his identity was discovered as a result of harsh interrogation techniques.

Why in the world was this ridiculous and unprecedented ruling not appealed by Holder?
Are you surprised?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:11   #5
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Was reading about this in the news earlier today, Preet Bharara stated that he will try to pursue the possible life sentence that Ahmed can still be charged of. This guy, whether he directly or indirectly killed those people, is still repsonsible for the deaths.

On the issue of military trial versus civilian, for thee cases, I personal support civilian courts. Don't get me wrong: Terrorism is a serious accusation and even civilian courts should be diligent and harsh... but I was under the impression that military trials/commissions are meant for those involved in the line of duty, those that follow a military code and way of life. Those of us who do not serve in a military institution, would not understand the military way of life, and to include a civilian under that mantle, even after what s/he might have done, would be disrespectful to those that do serve. At least in my opinion.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:33   #6
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Originally Posted by CombatMuffin View Post
.... At least in my opinion.
At least, you're able to espouse your opinion intelligently...I disagree with your outcome, but I appreciate your honesty.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:00   #7
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Originally Posted by CombatMuffin View Post
Was reading about this in the news earlier today, Preet Bharara stated that he will try to pursue the possible life sentence that Ahmed can still be charged of. This guy, whether he directly or indirectly killed those people, is still repsonsible for the deaths.

On the issue of military trial versus civilian, for thee cases, I personal support civilian courts. Don't get me wrong: Terrorism is a serious accusation and even civilian courts should be diligent and harsh... but I was under the impression that military trials/commissions are meant for those involved in the line of duty, those that follow a military code and way of life. Those of us who do not serve in a military institution, would not understand the military way of life, and to include a civilian under that mantle, even after what s/he might have done, would be disrespectful to those that do serve. At least in my opinion.
The reason for military justice tribunals is not to cloak persons charged with some sort of chivalrous honor. One reason for the military tribunal is that foreign persons acting in foreign lands are not entitled to the same rights as a citizen of the United States. Another reason for a military tribunal, as opposed to a civillian court, is that soldiers' jobs do not include collecting evidence and upholding constitutional rights. Accordingly, it becomes much more difficult, if not impossible, to convict a foreign person of a "crime" in a civillian court, when the evidence and witnesses are overseas.

A brief study of the Nuremberg trials is fascinating. It also illustrates that military tribunals are more than adequate for adjudicating cases such as this.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:19   #8
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ar_518135.html

Cheney to Obama: "End This Reckless Experiment.... We Are at War."

Keep America Safe on Ghailani verdict.
Nov 17, 2010 • By JOHN MCCORMACK
Keep America Safe just issued the following statement in response to the verdict against Ahmed Ghailani, who was found not guilty on 285 of 286 charges:

“Bad ideas have dangerous consequences. The Obama Administration recklessly insisted on a civilian trial for Ahmed Ghailani, and rolled the dice in a time of war. The Department of Justice says it’s pleased by the verdict. Ask the families of the victims if they’re pleased. And this result isn’t just embarrassing. It’s dangerous. It signals weakness in a time of war. The Ghailani trial was supposed to be a test case for future trials of 9/11 terrorists.

We urge the president: End this reckless experiment. Reverse course. Use the military commissions at Guantanamo that Congress has authorized. And, above all--accept the fact that we are at war.”

Liz Cheney, Chairman
Debra Burlingame & William Kristol, Directors
Keep America Safe
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:59   #9
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@1stindoor, craigepo: Thank you for your replies, sirs. I'll invest more research to better understand the controversy.
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Old 11-18-2010, 13:27   #10
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An interesting read here on Judge Kaplan's decision on the motion to dismiss based on the defendants right to a speedy trial. 48 pages long.

http://www1.nysd.uscourts.gov/cases/...special&id=110
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Old 11-18-2010, 18:16   #11
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Yeah, this worked out well. Holder should resign.

But, he won't.
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Old 11-18-2010, 20:35   #12
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Odd how this happened just a couple of weeks after the election, not before.
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Old 11-18-2010, 20:46   #13
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Maybe...maybe not... Politics and politicians...meh...

I listened to this discussion while driving to the DFW airport this evening.

Richard


Military Trials For Terrorism Suspects No Slam-Dunk
NPR, 18 Nov 2010

Critics are calling for military tribunals for remaining terrorism suspects in U.S. custody, pointing to a New York City jury's verdict Wednesday that cleared a former Guantanamo detainee of the most serious charges against him.

But national security experts say they're not so sure that the problems that prosecutors in the case against Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani confronted in civilian court would have played out much differently in a military commission.

Ghailani was convicted of just one count in federal court for his role in the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed 224 people. He was acquitted of more than 280 other charges.

During his trial, prosecutors were prevented from using any evidence allegedly obtained from Ghailani through torture. But that evidence would also have been inadmissible if Ghailani had been tried by military tribunal, says Benjamin Wittes, a senior fellow with the Brookings institution who studies legal issues surrounding the war on terrorism.

“If you, when you arrest somebody like Ghailani, put him in long-term secret detention with enhanced interrogation, you will create enormous back-end problems for any criminal trial that you'd later try to conduct, including a federal court trial and including a military commission,” Wittes said.

On the other side, defense lawyers for Ghailani say they haven't stopped fighting. They're going to appeal the single conspiracy conviction. And that's not all.

“We will be arguing strongly that based upon everything that Mr. Ghailani has gone through while in United States custody, specifically what he went through at the CIA black sites, what he went through at Guantanamo Bay, that those should mitigate against having a harsher sentence,” said Michael Bachrach, a member of the defense team.

Would that be different if the case were handled by a military commission?

Not necessarily.

One detainee charged before a military commission received a life sentence, but a few others got out within months, essentially being given credit for time they had already served.

Contrast that with the fate of four other men who were charged with taking part in those same Africa Embassy bombings years ago but never taken to Guantanamo.

Instead, they went to trial in New York — and they're all spending the rest of their lives in a supermax prison.

Ghailani, meanwhile, faces a minimum term of 20 years in prison, and a maximum of life, when he is sentenced in January.

"No one should dismiss this as a trivial conviction or a minor event," says Eugene Fidell, who leads the National Institute for Military Justice. "It's going to change Mr. Ghailani's life, big time."


http://www.npr.org/2010/11/18/131423...terror-suspect
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Old 11-18-2010, 21:17   #14
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I'm attaching a link to the University of Missouri-Kansas City's Nuremberg trial website. The particular page I've linked to details how the trials were run, including the provision that the "rules of evidence" were not to be followed. Interestingly, there was no appeal from a decision by the Nuremberg judges.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/proj...dictments.html
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Old 11-18-2010, 21:33   #15
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Victori spolia.

And so it goes...

Richard
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“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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