25U/31U as a feeder to 18E?

amatlis · 02-05-2009, 14:13

If any 18 echo's don't mind sharing their wisdom, I'm curious how many of you took the 25U course (previously 31U) and found it useful as a feeder to 18E. I had planned to push for an 11B rep-63 contract, but wiser minds suggest 25U would be a good use of my time. I may not have a choice, in any case, as it seems National Guard requires feeder MOS's that correspond to each 18 series. I originally wanted 11B so I could keep it short and focus on PT, but I've heard that you aren't given enough time in the day in 11B for sufficient PT.

Thanks in advance!

SpetsnaZ · 02-05-2009, 14:59

amatlis,

I enlisted as a 19D, deployed as a 11B and became an 18E, So heres my $.02

1. 11B is great for field exposure and a suck factor which you're gonna need in the future

2. During the Echo course I wish I had a prior commo MOS which would have helped ease the studying
3. I went through "the last hard class"

, and the Q course is now easier so what ever route you pick you have some choice's:
a) 11B- If you fail or quit you'll become a grunt in a line platoon
b) 25U- If you fail or quit you'll become a poug in a line platoon
c) 11B- "If" you make it you'll never be referred to as a poug
d) 25U- "If" you make it you'll just be a better commo guy

So its your choice?

Swank · 02-05-2009, 15:26

I'm not an echo, but I need one.

And if I were hiring you, I'd rather you had an infantry background. I can send you to school to learn radios. Patrolling, et al, are life skills. I was in tanks prior to going SF. I make up for my shortcomings by surrounding myself with guys who I know started in places harder than I did. My team is my security blanket.

Not only would I go 11B, I'd go ahead and get that V tacked on there. Unless you just want to be a commo guy with a green beret, in which case do your 25U or whatever. Some people are better at support. That's not meant to be an insult, it's just the way it is.

Surgicalcric · 02-05-2009, 15:38

He isnt talking about spending time as an Infantryman vs commo guy prior to coming to SFAS; he is talking about coming straight in off the street (18X/REP-63).

See here for more history on the topic... http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=21644

amatlis · 02-05-2009, 15:42

Thank you SpetsnaZ! I appreciate the feedback!

Initially, when I was told I had to do 25U, I was disappointed because I wanted exactly what you mentioned: field exposure and suck factor. I suddenly saw myself installing Microsoft Windows and configuring local area networks, and I thought, "Crap, I already do that stuff at home. I don't want to be doing desk work for 18 weeks!" But, then, in addition to your comment, Surgicalcric also mentioned that he heard several new 18Es say it was helpful to have more of a commo background, so I began to take it seriously. I looked over the 25U curriculum, and I can see how a lot of the radio, antenna, and satellite training would be helpful. I'm a little worried, however, that I won't be given time to PT properly. I don't mind studying hard for 18E in the future. I do worry a little about the physical preparation, more so lately that my work load at the office is interfering with my PT time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpetsnaZ

amatlis,

I enlisted as a 19D, deployed as a 11B and became an 18E, So heres my $.02

1. 11B is great for field exposure and a suck factor which you're gonna need in the future

2. During the Echo course I wish I had a prior commo MOS which would have helped ease the studying
3. I went through "the last hard class"

, and the Q course is now easier so what ever route you pick you have some choice's:
a) 11B- If you fail or quit you'll become a grunt in a line platoon
b) 25U- If you fail or quit you'll become a poug in a line platoon
c) 11B- "If" you make it you'll never be referred to as a poug
d) 25U- "If" you make it you'll just be a better commo guy

So its your choice?

amatlis · 02-05-2009, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swank

I'm not an echo, but I need one.

And if I were hiring you, I'd rather you had an infantry background. I can send you to school to learn radios. Patrolling, et al, are life skills. I was in tanks prior to going SF. I make up for my shortcomings by surrounding myself with guys who I know started in places harder than I did. My team is my security blanket.

Not only would I go 11B, I'd go ahead and get that V tacked on there. Unless you just want to be a commo guy with a green beret, in which case do your 25U or whatever. Some people are better at support. That's not meant to be an insult, it's just the way it is.

When you say infantry background, do you mean basic+ait 11B, or do you mean actual time spent in infantry? I am going rep-63 directly into SFAS after my MOS.

Also, what is the V you mention?

Thanks!

Surgicalcric · 02-05-2009, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by amatlis

....Also, what is the V you mention?

Airborne and Ranger School qualified.

amatlis · 02-05-2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Airborne and Ranger School qualified.

Thank you Surgicalcric. I am willing to do anything to get myself ready for SFAS. I don't know if I can get Ranger School in my contract. Would you recommend it?

Swank · 02-05-2009, 16:01

Oh, didn't realize you were doing this as an X-ray. I wasn't aware that you could pick anything other than 11B as your pre-req.

V is the identifier for airborne ranger, vs P which is just airborne.

Question: if you already do all this networking at home, why do you want to go to an MOS school for it? If you have a choice in MOS's, wouldn't you want to pick something up that will better crosstrain you and make you more marketable? Just a thought. Most 18E's that came before you were not commo previously.

Another thing to consider if you have a choice in your 18series selection: 18D's and 18E's get the MF'n shaft when it comes to promotions and schools. Half my class of 18D's are warrants now because it was the only way to stop being "the doc". And you wouldn't believe the hoops jumped through to get a fox slot. It's easier to go B or C first and then reclass to E. Just something to think about. Depends on what your long term goals are. And that's a looooooooooooong way down the road from where you are.

amatlis · 02-05-2009, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swank

Another thing to consider if you have a choice in your 18series selection: 18D's and 18E's get the MF'n shaft when it comes to promotions and schools. Half my class of 18D's are warrants now because it was the only way to stop being "the doc". And you wouldn't believe the hoops jumped through to get a fox slot. It's easier to go B or C first and then reclass to E. Just something to think about. Depends on what your long term goals are. And that's a looooooooooooong way down the road from where you are.

I don't have a hard-set long term goal. My immediate goal is to get on a team and start learning to be an asset. I figured I could help out more with 18E due to my background. But, really SF in any capacity is my goal.

Quote:

Question: if you already do all this networking at home, why do you want to go to an MOS school for it? If you have a choice in MOS's, wouldn't you want to pick something up that will better crosstrain you and make you more marketable? Just a thought. Most 18E's that came before you were not commo previously.

I used to do computer network support in college and I have a computer science degree, but I don't know about radios, antenna theory, and satellites.

glebo · 02-06-2009, 07:10

Swank and SpetsnaZ have good comments, I as a former 05BS, 18E and 18Z will give you my .02.

1. If your going right into the "fight", I would tend to lean toward the combat skills training upon entry into the army, you need the survival skills upfront, learn the technical as you go, as was mentioned reclass, I don't know how often they do that though, no one wants to lose a guy for two months to get reclassed.

2. If you're not going right into the fight, I agree with getting some type of Ft Gordon signal MOS prior to the 18E, the echoes are slowly starting to shift into network, LAN/WAN, computer geek duties with all the wizz bang equip emerging along with all the tactical comm's equip. It would also help with communicating with mother army when they are in your AO. You can hone your tactics through intensive tm training and drills over time.

All these opinions have merrit, but in the end, it's your call.

Good luck

EDIT: If I had my way I would send them to benning first, get infantry tng, then also send them to Ft Gordon for a signal skill before becoming an 18E, the way we used to do it. The leaarning curve in the MOS phases of the `Q course is quite steep, alot of of stuff to cover with not enought time.

I am also the 18E training developer up here in SWC(S)

There's alot more we tng/info we need to get to the 18E's, but we just can't come up with the time required

amatlis · 02-06-2009, 07:44

Thank you glebo. I really appreciate that information from an 18E training developer!

I have a question regarding your comment about going right into the fight. Do I really have a choice in that? Shouldn't I assume that I might be deployed as soon as I finish?

I have heard some people say 11B is not that important since you will learn it all and more in the Q course. But, I hear you saying you do think it is important for being an effective fighter. Do I understand you correctly?

Also, if I am already a computer geek, does that change your advice about going to 25U? For example, even if I know how to build computers, install operating systems and set up a computer LAN from a hobby perspective, is there a lot that would still be valuable to me - maybe advanced networking, radios, antenna theory, satellite communications?

Thanks!

Ret10Echo · 02-06-2009, 07:48

I came at it sort of backward...

Went through Infantry OSUT as a Reservist, then went active as a Signal Corp guy (36C, 31L, 31V...) Became an Echo and had a fairly easy time with a majority of the MOS-specific stuff since I had done a lot of it already (including a lot of the antenna theory...etc). I was very happy to have the 11B background (as limited as that exposure was) when it came down to it in the course because it is one thing to fumble around a bit stringing an antenna...it is quite another to walk around for hours and make poor tactical decisions(dragging your team behind you) because your basic infanty skills suck.

Unfortunately for you it is impossible and impractical to be strong in one area and weak in the other...

Do both and do them well...there are a lot of roads that lead in that direction. My personal thought is that if you are going to get into a signal MOS I would look for something with a more tactical spin to it. As a Unit-Level comm guy I worked with Engineer, Armor and Scout units so you are at least around a tactical mindset.

albeham · 02-06-2009, 09:08

Hello all,

I was a 11B but went 18E. Ham radio helped me do that, they wanted me to be a 18B, but I don't like heavy weapons

I did myself a great favor going 11B then 18E, for each 18 series has a job to do and must of the time its tactics on the ground. When it comes to it, we all need to shoot, move, and communicate.

I am now a geek with a gun and I know how to use both..and that makes me more dangerous ....

glebo · 02-06-2009, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by amatlis

Thank you glebo. I really appreciate that information from an 18E training developer!

I have a question regarding your comment about going right into the fight. Do I really have a choice in that? Shouldn't I assume that I might be deployed as soon as I finish?

I have heard some people say 11B is not that important since you will learn it all and more in the Q course. But, I hear you saying you do think it is important for being an effective fighter. Do I understand you correctly?

Also, if I am already a computer geek, does that change your advice about going to 25U? For example, even if I know how to build computers, install operating systems and set up a computer LAN from a hobby perspective, is there a lot that would still be valuable to me - maybe advanced networking, radios, antenna theory, satellite communications?

Thanks!

If you go active (which I assume) you probably will get right into the fight. If you say you have the skills you mentioned, I would dare to say you can forgo the 25 series training.

The tactics training in the "Q" is adequate, (we just re-vamped the 18B POI) but remember the Q course is just the "beginner" course for operators. Kinda like SF AIT, you will still have a great learning curve, no matter what the MOS you have when ya get to group.

You have to be a QUICK learner, but hey....thats what makes us "special"