Plane crashes into IRS building

[Fonzy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35460268/ns/us_news-life/

AUSTIN, Texas - A man apparently upset with the Internal Revenue Service set fire to his home, got into a small plane and crashed it Thursday into a multistory office building, authorities said.

At least two people were injured and a third was unaccounted for. The crash caused a fire and sent black smoke billowing from the seven-story Echelon Building.

Officials told The Associated Press that authorities were trying to determine if the pilot intentionally targeted nearby office space of the IRS. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was continuing.

Another official said authorities were pursuing reports that the pilot had a long-running dispute with the IRS.

The man was identified as Joseph Stack, officials confirmed to NBC News.

A senior law enforcement official told NBC's Pete Williams the saga began Thursday morning, when police received a domestic disturbance call at Stack's house. When they responded, they discovered that the man had lit a fire in his house and fled. They said he went to the Georgetown Municipal Airport about 30 miles north of the crash site, got into a small plane and took off.

A short time later, the plane crashed into the office building. Federal officials said they did not know whether the man crashed the plane intentionally, though they said it was a distinct possibility, the official told NBC.

As a precaution, the Colorado-based North American Aerospace Defense Command launched two F-16 aircraft from Houston's Ellington Field to patrol over the crash area.

The Echelon Building is next to a major highway in north Austin, and the crash started fires on several floors of the building.

Dozens of windows were blown out of the hulking black building and vehicles traveling on a nearby highway paused to look.

Authorities were conducting a roll call to try to account for all the workers who were in the building.

Two people were taken to a hospital, Austin Assistant Fire Chief Harry Evans said. The nature and severity of their injuries weren't immediately clear. A third person was unaccounted for, Evans said. It was not immediately known if the victims were from the plane or the office building.

[JJ2K1]

His online diatribe

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...102stack1.html

It was hosted here however the FBI already took it down.

http://www.embeddedart.com/

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by panama jack

A terrorist is a terrorist; foreign or "domestic". They both threaten our way of life; what we sacrifice for, what many of us have shed blood for; and what some of us have died for.
Non Timebo Mala

How is this a terrorist attack?

[Utah Bob]

Looks like he got involved with one of those anti-tax groups years ago and has been paying for it. Takes no responsibility for himself.
A disturbed mind. Hopefully he's the only one that dies because of his actions.

[wch84]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

How is this a terrorist attack?

I agree. I fail to see how this is a terrorist attack.

In my mind, there is a difference between a man pissed at the IRS and a terrorist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't terrorism more about ideology and a desire to "terrorize" a population or subset of a population? A personal grudge just doesn't strike me as terrorism.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

How is this a terrorist attack?

Originally Posted by wch84

I agree. I fail to see how this is a terrorist attack.

In my mind, there is a difference between a man pissed at the IRS and a terrorist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't terrorism more about ideology and a desire to "terrorize" a population or subset of a population? A personal grudge just doesn't strike me as terrorism.

If one plows through Mr. Stack's manifesto, the links to which are provided in post #3, one will find elements of an ideological argument against the American government.

Mr. Stack appeared to have reached the conclusion that "violence not only is the answer, but is the only answer." The question? How to make American "zombies wake up and revolt."

By my reading of this formulation, Mr. Stack sought to terrorize individuals working for the government as well as members of certain socio-economic classes.

My $0.02.

[wch84]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

If one plows through Mr. Stack's manifesto, the links to which are provided in post #3, one will find elements of an ideological argument against the American government.

Mr. Stack appeared to have reached the conclusion that "violence not only is the answer, but is the only answer." The question? How to make American "zombies wake up and revolt."

By my reading of this formulation, Mr. Stack sought to terrorize individuals working for the government as well as members of certain socio-economic classes.

My $0.02.

After I made my initial post, I read through his manifesto. I agree with your assessment. Crazy guy.

He seems to blame everyone but himself for the mistakes he made. I hope no one was killed in Austin.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by wch84

After I made my initial post, I read through his manifesto. I agree with your assessment. Crazy guy.

He seems to blame everyone but himself for the mistakes he made. I hope no one was killed in Austin.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to sharp shoot you. IMO, your post contained a very important question about the implications of describing 'blaze of glory' acts of murder as acts of domestic terrorism.

In regards to Mr. Stack, I do think it is open to interpretation and further investigation the extent of his political motivation and intent.
His manifesto could be window dressing for other issues.

• What else is on his HDD?
• Did the events he says he experienced even take place?
• Did he talk about politics with friends and associates or did he just complain endlessly about his problems?
• Did he generally attribute to others the reasons for his own unhappiness?

[Richard]

I fail to see how this is a terrorist attack.

From the USDOJ-OJP's National Institute of Justice

The search for a universal, precise definition of terrorism has been challenging for researchers and practitioners alike. Different definitions exist across the Federal, international, and research communities.

Title 22 of the U.S. Code, Section 2656f(d) (U.S. Department of State, 2007) defines terrorism as “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.”

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) defines terrorism as “the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”

Both definitions of terrorism share a common theme: the use of force intended to influence or instigate a course of action that furthers a political or social goal. In most cases, NIJ researchers adopt the FBI definition, which stresses methods over motivations and is generally accepted by law enforcement communities.

The NIJ web-site is a pretty interesting resource.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/...sm/welcome.htm

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02

[Vic]

I certainly think this is a terrorist attack. I wonder how the current military counter insurgency doctrine would handle this if it had jurisdiction. I want to be very careful not to sound as if I am sympathetic with this man, I am not and it makes me sick to have such madness on American soil. However, the doctrine would look at the stated grievances and not discount them out of hand right? I have read the note, and it is clear what his motives were. Should there be a cabinet level position advising the POTUS on this? What is this becomes a trend? How dangerous would it be to even give the impression of making concessions in the face of terrorism? Or how productive? This is just a thought exercise, and I believe whose jurisdiction it is to address this is that of the American people. I pray for the injured and hope there are no deaths.

[Pete]

So, was this one of those new "man caused disasters"?

Originally Posted by Vic

I certainly think this is a terrorist attack. I wonder how the current military counter insurgency doctrine would handle this

Well my son ( who is AD) would offer you some tinfoil...but otherwise it was a ONE person who was mad at IRS caused situation. Contrary to some beliefs, we here in the US of A can grow our on particualar band of loonies on occasion. When we do, it sure gets 'interesting'.
YMMV
AM

here are his ramblings.

edited to add: I see it as an act of revolt, not terrorism.

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, your post contained a very important question about the implications of describing 'blaze of glory' acts of murder as acts of domestic terrorism.

In regards to Mr. Stack, I do think it is open to interpretation and further investigation the extent of his political motivation and intent.
His manifesto could be window dressing for other issues

What he did garnered the attention of the country. It was scary -- especially in light of the WTC. It seemed to have some political social objective. So, was it terrorism? Or, is it a wacko act?
And more importantly, what differentiates a terrorist from a wacko? Who gets to decide?

[AngelsSix]

Originally Posted by Pete

So, was this one of those new "man caused disasters"?

Ha ha!! Love it!!

[wch84]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

To be clear, I wasn't trying to sharp shoot you. IMO, your post contained a very important question about the implications of describing 'blaze of glory' acts of murder as acts of domestic terrorism.

In regards to Mr. Stack, I do think it is open to interpretation and further investigation the extent of his political motivation and intent.
His manifesto could be window dressing for other issues.

• What else is on his HDD?
• Did the events he says he experienced even take place?
• Did he talk about politics with friends and associates or did he just complain endlessly about his problems?
• Did he generally attribute to others the reasons for his own unhappiness?

No worries, I was guilty of typing before reading. After reading his manifesto, suicide note or what have you - I can certainly see how a case might be made for terrorism.

I think you're correct that we need to learn more about him and his history. Perhaps he just generally sucked at dealing with life and the IRS issues made him snap. Or, on the other hand, perhaps his act was indeed intended not only to take his life and get back at the IRS - but also also to send a political message.

This will be interesting to follow...