Trespasser situation advice question for QP's or LEO's ?

akv · 04-10-2010, 15:04

Gentlemen,

A close friend of mine had the following experience last week. He owns a condo with a small two car garage in downtown San Francisco. Last Wednesday around 11pm, he pulled into the alley behind his building and parked in his garage. As he was opening the door to his apartment he noticed something in his peripheral vision. There was someone hunched over in the far corner of the garage. Thinking it was a homeless person, my friend said, “ Hey you need to get out of here.” The man stood up he wasn’t homeless, he was a black guy in his twenties, in street clothes. There was a silent standoff for a few seconds, until my friend not knowing what else to do got back into his car locked the doors and turned it on. At this point the intruder walked out of the garage, as my friend closed the garage door he says in the rear view mirror, he saw the guy was mimicking firing pistols at him. He filed a police report for trespassing the next day.

My advice to him was perhaps you should have acted like you didn’t see him, until you got locked safely inside your apartment, grabbed your 1911, and then called 911 and done nothing except wait for the police unless he tried coming in to the apartment. Confronting a street guy over possessions who could easily be armed isn’t smart. He agreed, but said it all happened so fast.

My friend recalls the guy’s eyes were bright like he was on something, and was likely just trying to steal the car stereo or something, and his shooting gesture was just to save face on his way out? Perhaps I’m overreacting, and would defer to the experts here, but my take is you can’t afford to think this way. I think following a grown man in a car into his garage is a pretty brazen act, and the shooting mimicking bothers me. I told him at the least put a light in the alley to light up the garage door.

I welcome any thoughts or advice, QP’s, LEO or anyone with experience might have regarding the severity of this situation, and possible steps to take going forward.

Thank You,

AKV

monsterhunter · 04-10-2010, 15:41

If the suspect was already in the garage, it looks like a burglary. If he was following your friend into the garage, it is much more serious. I would speculate anything from robbery to car jacking would be the intended crime. We will never know for sure. Sometimes the predators balk if they are confronted, and that may be what worked out for your friend. Other times they don't. If he was going straight after your friend, looking for an ambush type event, it would be a race to the door which may not be good.

If he could have gone inside, then I agree: Do whatever it takes to protect yourself, call the police, and keep them informed.

There are too many variables and it's hard to say exactly would be his best course of action. Some of it will have to be reaction to the suspect, unless your friend chooses to take the initiative, which could have some negative consequences on him.

Like I said, some will back down once they see their intended prey is not easy. Others, once they make progress forward (like chasing them to the door) won't stop once they've started. Kind of like a prey drive in a wild animal.

Hope that helps...best wishes to your friend, and you are correct it is very serious. Your friend should be very careful.

**The Reaper** · 04-10-2010, 19:01

1. A car is a powerful weapon with more energy than any gun you will ever fire.

2. How do you get into a closed garage?

3. A 1911 in your house is little help when you are not in your house.

4. There is a very good chance he may be back, if he thought there was something there worth stealing.

5. Ventilating a perp in San Francisco is probably not going to end well for your friend. Accidentally running over someone hiding in your garage illegally during a burglary is probably a lot easier to explain.

6. They make moving vans and there are states where you can legally defend yourself.

TR

akv · 04-10-2010, 19:32

TR,

I had the same how did he get in the garage question, my friend said the garage door to the apartment was locked, and it's a small two car garage, if he was already inside, the car's headlights would have lit him up, my theory is he crawled alongside the passenger side of the car as my friend pulled in, there is no place to hide in there.

Thank You Sir,

AKV

robert2854 · 04-10-2010, 19:54

He's worse than a trespasser. He's at least a burglar or an attempted robber. I would think of using the vehicle as a weapon and definitely a weapon if he was in a shooting positon. Contact the police ASAP with a description and location laast known direction. Your buddy was very lucky he wasn't more a victim or even a decedant. Tell your buddy to keep an eye out for himself and others, you can bet this wasn't his first "attempt". RATHER BE TRIED BY TWELVE THAN CARRIED BY SIX

**The Reaper** · 04-10-2010, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by akv

TR,

I had the same how did he get in the garage question, my friend said the garage door to the apartment was locked, and it's a small two car garage, if he was already inside, the car's headlights would have lit him up, my theory is he crawled alongside the passenger side of the car as my friend pulled in, there is no place to hide in there.

Thank You Sir,

AKV

Quite possible that if there is no pedestrian door to the garage and no physical forced entry, either a criminal or a neighbor has a garage door opener on the same freq, and is opening your friend's garage door. we have had the latter happen before and we changed the codes.

The perp was probably either dropped off after a deliberate opening, or was passing by and noticed that the door was opened by someone else. I suppose that he could have pried or forced his way in as well. He damn sure didn't teleport there.

I would ensure that I had a relatively recent garage door opener with a rolling frequency, consider getting a dog, an armed roommate, an alarm, or all of the above.

Best of luck.

TR

CSB · 04-10-2010, 21:52

I am a District Public Defender for the 19th Judicial District in Tennessee.
Based on my case files for the last year, here is my opinion of what happened, as seen from the perspective of "the suspect":

He is the wolf, the driver is the sheep.

The wolf will go where he wants, do what he wants, and take what he wants.

He is in a city where the chance of him finding an armed citizen is zero.

The wolf may or may not be armed, that is his choice.

As for the person driving into the garage ... that's the sheep. That sheep will stay in her/her car and pee in his/her pants before stepping out and confronting the wolf.

The wolf knows this, and will assess the situation:

- Anything worth stealing?
- Any pussy worth taking?

No .... then walk away, with a last minute "gotcha" pinger pointing to the sheep.
The sheep isn't gonna do a damn thing.

Go back to the crib, tell your fellow wolves the tale:

"Man, this dude locked himself in his car in his own garage. I bet he shit in his pants. No, I didn't get shit off of him. Too bad he didn't have some decent cu-t in the car, that would have at least made it worth my time to stick around, but fuck it, just some dude all alone in his car filling his boxers with you know what.

Not even worth my time. Ha!"

Last hard class · 04-10-2010, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSB

I am a District Public Defender for the 19th Judicial District in Tennessee.
Based on my case files for the last year, here is my opinion of what happened, as seen from the perspective of "the suspect":

He is the wolf, the driver is the sheep.

The wolf will go where he wants, do what he wants, and take what he wants.

He is in a city where the chance of him finding an armed citizen is zero.

The wolf may or may not be armed, that is his choice.

As for the person driving into the garage ... that's the sheep. That sheep will stay in her/her car and pee in his/her pants before stepping out and confronting the wolf.

The wolf knows this, and will assess the situation:

- Anything worth stealing?
- Any pussy worth taking?

No .... then walk away, with a last minute "gotcha" pinger pointing to the sheep.
The sheep isn't gonna do a damn thing.

Go back to the crib, tell your fellow wolves the tale:

"Man, this dude locked himself in his car in his own garage. I bet he shit in his pants. No, I didn't get shit off of him. Too bad he didn't have some decent cu-t in the car, that would have at least made it worth my time to stick around, but fuck it, just some dude all alone in his car filling his boxers with you know what.

Not even worth my time. Ha!"

CSB:

First, I want to commend you for choosing such a noble career path. I wouldn't last one week assisting some of these "wolves".

There are things in my life I am willing to go to prison for, none of which are in my garage. Not really about being scared. (I have always thought one of the things that separates SF from others is the abilty to make smart decisions during the adrenaline rush) It's a personal choice. I enjoy my freedom more than my old steel pot.

My pappy used to tell me to never get in a fight at a bar because you don't know who is sitting on the stool next to you. The next Chuck Norris? The bad ass ranking scale is a pyramid. Only one man at the top (I'm somewhere near the bottom). My point is, everything reverts to the mean. One day, this wolf will meet his Chuck Norris. Hopefully, sooner rather than later.

**Pete** · 04-11-2010, 08:11

Whats done is done

Once again we have a thread about something that happened and what should a person do in that situation.

The perp was in the garage. He got in by either an old code garage door opener or he followed the car in after the owner opened it or he busted in.

The fix? Update opener and take a hard look at the area around the garage - AFTER DARK. Trim back shrubs and get motion activated yard lights. Side door? Dead bolt and longer screws.

Folks, your eyes are open but are you looking. Do you see the out of place? The not normal? After loading that brand new mega-flat screen in your car at the Mall did you notice that a car has been following you home?

Better to prevent a crime than to figure out how to get out of that situation as its happening.

SF18C · 04-11-2010, 09:46

Wow, the biggest surprise here is that hand guns are still legal in the land of Queen Pelosi.
But this brings up a somewhat similar but less threating situation we had here recently. The Mexican Circus is in town this week, yeah I am totally not kidding, the Mexican Circus. Short point is transients in the area and most “circus folks” aren’t known for their charity work! We live at the end of a long and dead-end road. The wife noticed a lady standing near our house, apparently casing it out. She was later noticed walking on the farm road on the back side of our house. At this point the wife took the two dogs out for a “walk” in our fenced yard. As soon as the dogs noticed the stranger they started their usual bark, bark, bark! Wife then made sure the lady noticed as she lifted the cell phone to her ear and called me, while staring directly at the lady. The lady moved away for our area. Then the wife went about checking the security of all windows, doors, and gates. When I got home from work I took the truck for a trip around the AO and took the dogs for another patrol.

Be actively vigilant; know what is usual - so that you can spot the unusual! Always maintain situational awareness and be sure to educate your family members. Don't be an easy target!

akv · 04-11-2010, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

The fix? Update opener and take a hard look at the area around the garage - AFTER DARK. Trim back shrubs and get motion activated yard lights. Side door? Dead bolt and longer screws.

Pete,

Thanks for this.

-AKV

echoes · 04-11-2010, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Whats done is done

Once again we have a thread about something that happened and what should a person do in that situation.

The perp was in the garage. He got in by either an old code garage door opener or he followed the car in after the owner opened it or he busted in.

The fix? Update opener and take a hard look at the area around the garage - AFTER DARK. Trim back shrubs and get motion activated yard lights. Side door? Dead bolt and longer screws.

Folks, your eyes are open but are you looking. Do you see the out of place? The not normal? After loading that brand new mega-flat screen in your car at the Mall did you notice that a car has been following you home?

Better to prevent a crime than to figure out how to get out of that situation as its happening.

Pete Sir,

VERY sage advice Sir, thank you for taking the time to share it. A QP's mind is like gold...priceless in every ounce.

Holly

CSB · 04-12-2010, 12:47

Quote:

197. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in
any of the following cases:

1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
...
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a
wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such
person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to
commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent
danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the
person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant
or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have
endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was
committed; or,

Hey, maybe those newspaper people should back off of Tiger Woods, he may have a valid defense for pummeling anybody that threatenes his girlfriend(s).