Competition Shooting

[kawika]

So I need a new hobby. Been looking at doing something shooting related when I get home. Anyone in the area do IDPA or USPSA shooting? Not looking to get to serious, don't have the time for that. I do reload though so ammo isn't a problem. From searching the internet it looks like Raleigh/Charolette are where most of the matches are. Looking for something low key that would be fun to do on the weekends. Will more than likely use my existing guns and not buy any new ones(M&P 45, Glock 34, H&K .40 USP).

[longrange1947]

When shooting becomes serious, it is no longer fun!!!

Shoot for the fun and relaxation, if it stops being either due to competition pressures, then step back, reevaluate and start over.

I have been competing off and on since 1958, I know how easy it is to get too serious over a game. And that is all it is, a very fun game and keep it that way.

Use the weapon that you are most comfortable with and then practice and practice some more. Piss on all the gurus, shoot what you want and what makes you happy. If you do that you will not only have fun but you will shoot very well in deed.

[APLP]

Originally Posted by kawika

So I need a new hobby. Been looking at doing something shooting related when I get home. Anyone in the area do IDPA or USPSA shooting? Not looking to get to serious, don't have the time for that. I do reload though so ammo isn't a problem. From searching the internet it looks like Raleigh/Charolette are where most of the matches are. Looking for something low key that would be fun to do on the weekends. Will more than likely use my existing guns and not buy any new ones(M&P 45, Glock 34, H&K .40 USP).

Been playing some of those games for quite some time. Pros and cons for both shooting hobbies. If you choose IDPA, your handguns listed above will serve you well. If you choose USPSA your equipment will be suitable for some categories of competition but not others. If your new hobby becomes your obsession you will most likely end up purchasing the same types of equipment proven to best perform in the sport. With respect to Competitive IPSC shooting tenths and hundredths of a second often make the difference. But regardless of which venue you pursue, you are likely to enjoy greatly your time pulling the trigger.

[alright4u]

Originally Posted by longrange1947

When shooting becomes serious, it is no longer fun!!!

Shoot for the fun and relaxation, if it stops being either due to competition pressures, then step back, reevaluate and start over.

I have been competing off and on since 1958, I know how easy it is to get too serious over a game. And that is all it is, a very fun game and keep it that way.

Use the weapon that you are most comfortable with and then practice and practice some more. Piss on all the gurus, shoot what you want and what makes you happy. If you do that you will not only have fun but you will shoot very well in deed.

Command a leg Infantry company and see the jerks for NCO's, who spent their lives on Army shooting teams.


MACV to shooting teams these are sorry ass leg NCO's. They know jack shit and never will never be better then a Captain in the Golden Knights, if that. They forget what troop duty is.

[longrange1947]

Originally Posted by alright4u

Command a leg Infantry company and see the jerks for NCO's, who spent their lives on Army shooting teams.


MACV to shooting teams these are sorry ass leg NCO's. They know jack shit and never will never be better then a Captain in the Golden Knights, if that. They forget what troop duty is.

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[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by longrange1947

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Rick:

Can't wait to see what 'Sinister' has to say about that post.

Gene

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by alright4u

Command a leg Infantry company and see the jerks for NCO's, who spent their lives on Army shooting teams.


MACV to shooting teams these are sorry ass leg NCO's. They know jack shit and never will never be better then a Captain in the Golden Knights, if that. They forget what troop duty is.

AR4U:

How many Shooting Teams do you think there are in the Army today?

Gene

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by alright4u

Command a leg Infantry company and see the jerks for NCO's, who spent their lives on Army shooting teams.

MACV to shooting teams these are sorry ass leg NCO's. They know jack shit and never will never be better then a Captain in the Golden Knights, if that. They forget what troop duty is.

I must be missing something here.

Maybe it relates to something before I came in in 1979.

TR

[longrange1947]

Gene - I'm not sure I want Dave to see that.

I am hoping the individual was in his cups and did not type what was really in his mind. If he did then his experiences were not typical. Know a number of Rangers that would not agree either.

Never spent any time on the Army shooting team but if he was on me because I had been doing comps since 1958, then he is really misdirected. Any case, I will ignore this one for now.

[JGarcia]

I have been kicking the idea around of participating in the USPSA. As an unfrozen caveman, the scoring system is very confusing to me.

Is speed or time more heavily weighted than accuracy is in these USPSA matches?

USPSA appeals to me because of their "Production Class." I am not interested in competing with a "Race Gun" because I am never going to walk around with such a sidearm, nor am I likely to use such a firearm in defense.

However, I have been issued an M9 on deployments and will likely be issued one again. So I would like to try and shoot a couple of realistic competitions shooting "Production Class" with an M9. These matches would be more interesting to me if you could compete in full kit, which would be a more realistic measure of your abilities. Anybody can fart around in "Golf Course Tactical Attire" with race guns and hit a target.

[APLP]

Originally Posted by JGarcia

I have been kicking the idea around of participating in the USPSA. As an unfrozen caveman, the scoring system is very confusing to me.

Is speed or time more heavily weighted than accuracy is in these USPSA matches?

USPSA appeals to me because of their "Production Class." I am not interested in competing with a "Race Gun" because I am never going to walk around with such a sidearm, nor am I likely to use such a firearm in defense.

However, I have been issued an M9 on deployments and will likely be issued one again. So I would like to try and shoot a couple of realistic competitions shooting "Production Class" with an M9. These matches would be more interesting to me if you could compete in full kit, which would be a more realistic measure of your abilities. Anybody can fart around in "Golf Course Tactical Attire" with race guns and hit a target.

USPSA rewards speed over pure accuracy. It is a game for sure, but you would be surprised how well those folks in "Golf Course Tactical Attire" shoot production class guns with .15-.20 splits and still hit the paper and steel targets on the move.

[JGarcia]

That's what I was afraid of, (speed, over accuracy).

That's fine if they want to make it a speed thing, as long as they make the targets smaller, such as using a bowling pin instead of a full silhouette.

Shooting that fast and getting "hits" on a silhouette doesn't impress me, especially when dressed for a day on the driving range.

Is there such a match that has the competitors get in full kit, use small and fleeting targets, production firearms - no mods, or better yet; issue firearms only (M9, M11, etc.,)? That is something realistic, and a match I'd be very interested in participating in. Maybe it's too difficult for most people. IDK.

The shooter could start out, strapped into a hummvee roll over drill mock up, in full kit. Start the timer when the hummvee completes its roll over, after the fire suppression system kicks on. The shooter has to exit the vehicle (he is strapped in, upside down) and then engage three targets and then move to along a 50M route to another humvee (with some engagements enroute) where he links up with the other crew and the time ends, that could be one stage. Score is based on time and hits. All targets are small, bowling pins and 1/4 silhouettes (head and shoulders), and/or partial targets.

That'd be a kick.

[jatx]

Originally Posted by JGarcia

Is there such a match that has the competitors get in full kit, use small and fleeting targets, production firearms - no mods, or better yet; issue firearms only (M9, M11, etc.,)? That is something realistic, and a match I'd be very interested in participating in. Maybe it's too difficult for most people. IDK.

You should look for a three-gun match with an "Ironman" class. They typically involve full kit, humping all of your ammo and weapons from one stage to the next, and lots of variety.

ETA: I've never done one, primarily because I have zero interest in shotguns.

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by JGarcia

That's what I was afraid of, (speed, over accuracy).

That's fine if they want to make it a speed thing, as long as they make the targets smaller, such as using a bowling pin instead of a full silhouette.

Shooting that fast and getting "hits" on a silhouette doesn't impress me, especially when dressed for a day on the driving range.

Is there such a match that has the competitors get in full kit, use small and fleeting targets, production firearms - no mods, or better yet; issue firearms only (M9, M11, etc.,)? That is something realistic, and a match I'd be very interested in participating in. Maybe it's too difficult for most people. IDK.

The shooter could start out, strapped into a hummvee roll over drill mock up, in full kit. Start the timer when the hummvee completes its roll over, after the fire suppression system kicks on. The shooter has to exit the vehicle (he is strapped in, upside down) and then engage three targets and then move to along a 50M route to another humvee (with some engagements enroute) where he links up with the other crew and the time ends, that could be one stage. Score is based on time and hits. All targets are small, bowling pins and 1/4 silhouettes (head and shoulders), and/or partial targets.

That'd be a kick.

JG:

I don't think so. HMMWV's are expensive.

You would probably like the three gun stuff but you would also probably get upset over some of their rules which aren't very practical IMHO. It depends on who is running the match though. Most won't allow things we do by nature when in training so my advice is to really do a good recon of the event and folks running the event before spending a-lot of money.

Although I disagree with many of the safety rules demanded in such events, the fact is that few Army units would even allow someone to run such an event out of fear.

So take it from there. There are guys here who shoot IPSC and Three Gun. Both are great sports IMHO. Rick and I shoot High Power and you most certainly wouldn't like that because we wear big leather shooting jackets, use rifles and cartridges no one would ever take to combat, and we throw our gear into the back of our pick up trucks and drive between firing lines.

What ever way you go -- any shooting sport is a discipline and thus is good in terms of the Profession of Arms.

Gene

[Tuukka]

Usually you can not miss fast enough to win in IPSC shooting.

From participating in numerous competitions over the past 10 years and reviewing the results of the lead shooters, you will notice that quite many have near the maximum points on each stage.

Top shooters routinely count how many points they lost on each stage, to keep a situational awareness going on the progress of the competition.

This especially applies if you are shooting in the Minor calibre class, shooting C or D hits will severely affect your placement.

For people in the military or law enforcement, I would really recommend the Production class, it keeps things simple and depending on your own skills and goals, there is plenty of competetiveness there.

Many people shun on IPSC shooting, saying it is just a sport and / or some do not even think of it as a shooting discpline, compared to the more traditional shooting sports.

When I entered the Army, I had already shot IPSC type competitions for a few years.

Even though my experience was with a another rifle type, I was consistently at the top in weapon handling skills and accuracy on the range or in our own applied shooting drills.

Why do many of the worlds special operations units use IPSC world champions for training purposes?

They learn tactics from somewhere else, but wouldnt you listen to what a world champion in shooting fast and accurately has to say about pure shooting?