Just wondering...

Taktiq · 08-02-2008, 09:07

A while back, I began to think to myself, beyond each one's dedicated roles, that geez there's a lot of SOF units in the US. SEALs, SF, PJ, etc etc etc. and it made me wonder something...

I understand that in the UK, the SAS rotate all their guys through the various roles they conduct like their CT wing. Obviously, I know unless I was a part of those units, I won't really know if that's how they did it then or now. But, I'm just talking in regards to what info is available to the general public.

My question is, again keeping with the fact that I'm only speaking in terms of what civilians get to know no matter how flawed, why doesn't SOCOM do this with SF groups? I mean I know you guys are cross trained to the nth degree but, going on reports that everyone is stretched thin, wouldn't it sensible if everyone could fill the "other roles" by rotating through?

**The Reaper** · 08-02-2008, 09:27

First, you need to do some research and reading here about core SF missions. How many, what they are, etc.

Then, you might want to consider why pro athletes do not play more than one sport. Think about MJ's baseball career, for example. The converse is equally true, and IMHO, FID and UW are more difficult missions to perform than CT.

Finally, given that the Groups are deployed into combat more than 50% of the time, when would you suggest that they acquire the training to be fully proficient at these additional missions?

On a side note, you may want to consider more reading here and less thread starting to appease your idle curiosity, at least till you get accustomed to how this site works. I'd say you are currently 0 for 3.

Best of luck.

TR

**Ambush Master** · 08-02-2008, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taktiq

A while back, I began to think to myself, beyond each one's dedicated roles, that geez there's a lot of SOF units in the US. SEALs, SF, PJ, etc etc etc. and it made me wonder something...

I understand that in the UK, the SAS rotate all their guys through the various roles they conduct like their CT wing. Obviously, I know unless I was a part of those units, I won't really know if that's how they did it then or now. But, I'm just talking in regards to what info is available to the general public.

My question is, again keeping with the fact that I'm only speaking in terms of what civilians get to know no matter how flawed, why doesn't SOCOM do this with SF groups? I mean I know you guys are cross trained to the nth degree but, going on reports that everyone is stretched thin, wouldn't it sensible if everyone could fill the "other roles" by rotating through?

As an adjunct to TR's response: None of the "Other" SOCOM Units have the mandatory "Linguistic" requirement that SF has, nor are they trained to the extent that SF is, in "working with and training" Foreign Nationals.

SF has a very unique and "Special" Mission!!!

Taktiq · 08-02-2008, 11:32

Yeah, I knew I should've listened to my gut about asking that question. Oh well...

TR:
I understand the core missions of SF but, I was trying to ask without bringing up the "D" word and get reamed even worse. The sports analogy does make a lot of sense and I'll admit I never looked at it that way.

I did spend some time reading on this site before finally registering. It took me a while to do so because, I really don't have too many questions and the ones I did have, I'd yet to find my own answer anywhere else. In all fairness, IMO, only this question was asked out of idle curiosity...no, wait. Ok, I guess the CIA vs SF one counts too, but not the one about the Taliban.

AM:
Good point.

mark46th · 08-03-2008, 12:46

In addition to what 'bush Master said, SF carries on many of its missions behind enemy lines with little help from an HQ. These missions can last for 12 months or more. The other SOF (God, I hate that term) usually deploy with their entire unit and are based with them, run a mission of a few days , maybe a week or two then return to base. If they are on a mission longer than that, they are usually resupplied regularly.

Taktiq · 08-04-2008, 06:22

I think only TR understood what it was I was really trying to ask. No offense to the other guys responding since I was being a bit vague as well but, I was meaning rotation of US Army SF through another certain unit as a means to enhance capabilities, for lack of a better way to state it. The sports analogy along with the question of when would they have the time to do that, are both very good points and, I'll let it go at that.

I will apologize as this time, my idle curiosity got the better of me and I really didn't want to be just another poster asking inane "what if" or "why" questions. As I stated, I don't really have too many questions and have seriously tried to think about what I wanted to ask before posting if I couldn't find the info elsewhere.

For the record, as far as a civilian will ever get to know, I do understand the core missions and SF's ability to operate independently, without support for extended periods of time which makes it an exception within the US military as a whole.

To Mark, though...why do you hate the term SOF?

**Pete** · 08-04-2008, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taktiq

....To Mark, though...why do you hate the term SOF?

Because the MSM does not know the difference between "SOF" Forces.

To most of the MSM CCT, PJs, Pyops, Civil Affairs, Rangers and Special Forces are all one in the same. SEALs do did to get their own lable most of the time.

**Team Sergeant** · 08-04-2008, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taktiq

A while back, I began to think to myself, beyond each one's dedicated roles, that geez there's a lot of SOF units in the US. SEALs, SF, PJ, etc etc etc. and it made me wonder something...

Is there a reason you place PJ's with SEAL and SF? Why not the 160SOAR Mechanics, SEALS and SF? Or the Civil Affairs, SEALS and SF? PSYOP, Rangers, SEALS and SF?

It's individuals such as yourself that lack a very basic understanding of SOF in general. You know just enough to ask an unintelligent question, just like the main stream media (MSM). (You'd make a fine USSOCOM general.)

Team Sergeant

Taktiq · 08-04-2008, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Is there a reason you place PJ's with SEAL and SF? Why not the 160SOAR Mechanics, SEALS and SF? Or the Civil Affairs, SEALS and SF? PSYOP, Rangers, SEALS and SF?

It's individuals such as yourself that lack a very basic understanding of SOF in general. You know just enough to ask an unintelligent question, just like the main stream media (MSM). (You'd make a fine USSOCOM general.)

Team Sergeant

Not really. I was meaning all the varied units under the umbrella of USSOCOM. Honestly, from your vantage point, being on the inside, who do you feel qualifies as being referred to as special operations forces then?

**Team Sergeant** · 08-04-2008, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taktiq

Not really. I was meaning all the varied units under the umbrella of USSOCOM. Honestly, from your vantage point, being on the inside, who do you feel qualifies as being referred to as special operations forces then?

Here’s where you read more and post less, a lot less.

All the Special Operations Forces have been defined, start here and read and when you’re done read some more. http://www.socom.mil/

The next time you post I’ll be asking you a question regarding a specific Special Operations unit, if you cannot answer I will ban you from the board.

Do not post again until you are sure you will be able to answer my SOF question.

Team Sergeant

mark46th · 08-05-2008, 22:14

The only others I have worked with were the PJ's. This was SAR training during the Vietnam war with the Jolly Greens and Knife crews. I would low crawl thru broken glass for the PJ's, their pilots and and crew chiefs. Anyone who would fly thru curtains of AAA to go get me or my friends is welcome in my hootch, anytime...

Longstreet · 08-20-2008, 12:01

Thank you Team Sergeant for the www.socom.mil/ link. I have been wondering for some time why the US has so many special ops teams and the roles that they play.

Looks like your advice to read, read, read, has definately paid off. Thanks once again!

af_rigger · 12-09-2008, 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark46th

The only others I have worked with were the PJ's. This was SAR training during the Vietnam war with the Jolly Greens and Knife crews. I would low crawl thru broken glass for the PJ's, their pilots and and crew chiefs. Anyone who would fly thru curtains of AAA to go get me or my friends is welcome in my hootch, anytime...

Thanks for the recognition to the PJ's!!!

Blitzzz (RIP) · 12-09-2008, 14:04

As usual you guys provide much very good feedback for the likes of some. I just have to say that having worked with Rangers, Seals, PJs, Marine Recon, SAS, Danish commandos, and a few other "special"troops. While hey are all "special" to their commands and countries. None that I have worked with can do what the US ARMY SPECIAL FORCES does. They are pretty strong , well educated, highly motivated, and all that counts in this environment. They are mostly Direct Action Oriented and all that they do is short in duration. SF must survive to accomplish long term missions full of many and continuing short missions in someone else's backyard. with or without that country's permission. In that long term mission the SF men, must do Recons, Direct actions, self support , training foreign men to fight for themselves. These aren't MTTs or short sponsored training missions or even DA raids and such. So you can understand that there is no rotating that would benefit the Special Forces Soldier. WE have to do everyone elses jobs to do our own. my few ¢. Blitzzz

God bless all My Brothers.

greenberetTFS · 12-10-2008, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzzz

As usual you guys provide much very good feedback for the likes of some. I just have to say that having worked with Rangers, Seals, PJs, Marine Recon, SAS, Danish commandos, and a few other "special"troops. While hey are all "special" to their commands and countries. None that I have worked with can do what the US ARMY SPECIAL FORCES does. They are pretty strong , well educated, highly motivated, and all that counts in this environment. They are mostly Direct Action Oriented and all that they do is short in duration. SF must survive to accomplish long term missions full of many and continuing short missions in someone elses backyard. with or without that countries permmission. In that long term mission the SF men, must do Recons, Direct actions, self support , training foriegn men to fight for themselves. These aren't MTTs or short sponsored training missions or even DA raids and such. So you can understand that there is no rotating that would benefit the Special Forces Soldier. WE have to do everyone elses jobs to do our own. my few ¢. Blitzzz

God bless all My Brothers.

Excellent post Blitzzz.... Your points are very well taken,maybe now our youngsters may get the message......

GB TFS