Central Falls Rhode Island Fires Every High School Teacher

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.topix.com/city/central-falls-ri




BMT

[rubberneck]

Money has become the bane of education. It's the dirty secret that no one in power wants to talk about, but the fact of the matter is that we spend too much on education. Teacher's salaries continue to go up while test scores go down. Our newly elected governor decided to freeze the education budget to close the state budget deficit. The Dems have been screaming bloody murder about how he is punishing the "kids" but what they didn't tell the public is that most NJ school districts sit multi million dollar surpluses that they refuse to spend. What's wrong with that picture. They have millions of dollars laying around collecting dust and every election cycle the teachers union is screaming about their poor pay and a lack of resources in the classroom.

Don't get me wrong I love good teachers. In fact I grew up in a family of dedicated teachers who are disgusted at the current state of education in this country. Both of my grandmothers, my mother and three of my aunts each taught for decades back in an era where the pay was crap. Because the pay was so bad it attracted people who wanted the job because they felt a calling to be a teacher. That isn't the case any more. My son's teacher left on maternity last year and they hired a full time substitute to cover her last year and to cover any other maternity openings going forward. Her salary is $54,000 plus benefits. Not bad for a 23 year old straight of college with no experience. Did I mention that she routinely marked things wrong on my son's tests when he answered the question correctly. It go so bad I had to go talk to the principal about it.

My next door neighbor is a teacher who makes $85,000 a year and hates her job. I wish I had a dime for every time I have heard her bitch her job and her students over the past 10 years. Next year she'll retire with 30 years on the job and she'll get 70% of her three highest paid years and all of her benefits with a COLA thrown in for good measure. I don't begrudge teachers money but when our kids are failing at a greater rate than ever I question if we are spending too much money.

[Richard]

For anyone interested in the full story - http://www.projo.com/education/conte...1.3a65218.html

Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be...it was all so different before everything changed.

Richard's $.02

[nmap]

Originally Posted by rubberneck

My next door neighbor is a teacher who makes $85,000 a year and hates her job. I wish I had a dime for every time I have heard her bitch her job and her students over the past 10 years.

Perhaps you would find it interesting to talk to her and find out why she hates her job. Why she hates her students.

I took a class...one of the last regular classes I needed. I got approval to attend it since it checked off a box among my required classes, but the other 20+ students were on an MA track. As nearly as I could tell, all were currently teaching in San Antonio public schools.

Did they hate their jobs? Sorta. They loved teaching and cared deeply about the students. But they were given scripts, and they had to follow those scripts when they taught. They had to teach to the test. In fact, they generally spoke of students who were distressed by the constant emphasis on the same standardized high-stakes test. One spoke of a child who vomited in class due to the stress. The real complaint - they weren't allowed to teach.

Did they hate their students? They deplored the tendency to not bother with assignments. They also worried that more and more students came from families that were homeless.

The article shows the salaries. Take a look at the turnover. So - what causes people to walk away from the job?

Comparison of the TFS data with either the nurse’s or the employee turnover rate suggests that teaching has a relatively high turnover rate: 15% from 1988 to 1989, 13.2% from 1991 to 1992, and 14.3% from 1994 to 1995.

This from pg. 513 of THIS LINK

The study has been cited more than 600 times, per Google Scholar.

The data suggest that improvements in organizational conditions, such as increased support from the school administration, reduction of student discipline problems, and enhanced faculty input into school decision-making and increased salaries, would all contribute to lower rates of turnover, thus diminish school staffing problems, and ultimately aid the performance of schools. from page 525

I suspect that the superintendent is engaged in some grandstanding. The real problems, I think, lie deeper.

Study cited:
American Educational Research Journal
Fall 2001, Vol. 38, No. 3, pp. 499–534
Teacher Turnover and Teacher Shortages:
An Organizational Analysis
Richard M. Ingersoll

[Richard]

But they were given scripts, and they had to follow those scripts when they taught.

That's the risk averse core curriculum trend which some of the larger urban school districts (e.g., San Antonio) have chosen to use.

Richard

[rubberneck]

It's quite simple she hates teaching and only dislikes her students slightly less. She is only in it for the paycheck, the hours, benefits that extend into her retirement and has said so several times. While she is not typical of most teachers out there I do notice a difference between the teachers of my generation and the current generation of teachers. Then again I notice a big difference between kids today and what kids were like when I was growing up.

[Sigaba]

From the article cited in Richard's post.

Union officials say they, too, want to improve the high school but are unwilling to sign off on the six conditions, especially without receiving additional pay. In a letter, union officials said they do not think Gallo has the authority to fire the teachers and she must negotiate the terms of the reforms.

Sounds like the L.A. teachers' union: We'll consider any proposal to improve the quality of education...as long as it doesn't require our members to work harder.

Originally Posted by rubberneck

While she is not typical of most teachers out there I do notice a difference between the teachers of my generation and the current generation of teachers. Then again I notice a big difference between kids today and what kids were like when I was growing up.

IMO, figuring out who is the chicken and who is the egg in this relationship is crucial to fixing America's schools.

[Richard]

...I do notice a difference between the teachers of my generation and the current generation of teachers. Then again I notice a big difference between kids today and what kids were like when I was growing up.

Ever read The Blackboard Jungle by Evan Hunter?

The book was based on his experiences in a Bronx vocational high school - he was in the Navy in WW2, used the GI Bill to get a college education, and took a job teaching while starting a career as a writer. He is most commonly known as mystery writer Ed McBain, author of the 87th Precinct novels.

However...

Richard had retired and had bought a modest home near a junior high school. He spent the first few weeks of his retirement in peace, quiet and contentment.

Then a new school year began. The very next afternoon three young boys, full of youthful, after-school enthusiasm, came down his street, beating merrily on every trash can they encountered.

The crashing percussion continued day after day, until finally Richard decided it was time to take some action. The next afternoon, he walked out to meet the young 'percussionists' as they banged their way down the street.

Stopping them, he said, 'You kids are a lot of fun. I like to see you express your exuberance like that. In fact, I used to do the same thing when I was your age. Will you do me a favor? I'll give you each a dollar if you'll promise to come around every day and do your thing.'

The kids were elated and continued to do a bang-up job on the trashcans.

After a few days, Richard greeted the kids again, but this time he had a sad smile on his face. 'This recession is really putting a big dent in my income,' he told them. 'From now on, I'll only be able to pay you 50 cents to beat on the cans.'

The noisemakers were obviously displeased, but they accepted his offer and they continued their afternoon ruckus. A few days later, Richard approached them again as they drummed their way down the street.

'Look,' he said, 'I haven't received my retirement check yet, so I'm not going to be able to give you more than 25 cents. Will that be okay?'

'Only a lousy quarter?' the drum leader exclaimed. 'If you think we're going to waste our time beating these cans around for a quarter, you're nuts! No way, mister. We quit!'

Richard then proceeded to once again enjoy peace and tranquillity.

And so it goes...

Richard

[ZonieDiver]

Then again I notice a big difference between kids today and what kids were like when I was growing up.

My first years as a teacher often had me going home asking, "What the hell is WRONG with kids today?" I soon found out - nothing. I think it still holds true today. Kids today are JUST like we were when we were kids. I don't know about you, but I was far from a 'perfect angel' in school. I often went as far as I was allowed. If the "iron hand justice" came down upon me, or more often, one of my more brazen fellow students, we'd all back off a bit until some brave soul tried again.

There was a "line" of accepted behavior that society in general had laid down for we youngsters to "toe." That line is now, for the most part, gone. IF not gone, it is so obscured that kids don't know where the hell it is. They push, they whine, they do what kids do. IF you have expectations that are communicated and enforced - and you treat them fairly and humanely - MOST will suprise you with how much they act LIKE we think we acted.

Just my 2 cents worth from my huge teacher salary...

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

Just my 2 cents worth from my huge teacher salary...

I guess I could see how a teacher would be offended by my comments and am sorry that you seem to have felt slighted. The fact of the matter is we are spending more on education than we ever have in this country and we are getting less in return. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask why that is and to question the need to spend even more without first knowing what the cause is.

Like everything in life the answer is probably very complex and not easily addressed. I am sure there are parts of the country where teachers aren't as well compensated as they are here in the north east but I do know that my state burns through insane amounts of capital on education and we have high schools graduating kids that can barely read and write. In these parts whenever someone asks why our kids are falling behind the teachers union first and only response is to say that we need to spend more money. We done that for decades and it clearly isn't working.

I guess what I am saying is that in this case the district had what appears to be a reasonable a plan to try and help their kids who were obviously failing and the unions response was sure we'll do it but only if you pay us more.

[Dozer523]

Rhodes Island is that itty-bitty state, right.?
Well if they have room, I might be available for that kind of salary.

I'm with my estemmed tenured collegue as for the nebulous "line". Actually, it's sort of our fault because we are always harping that parents "need to be more involved". Well, after about the 5th grade most parents can't help with homework anymore so they just worry about "the classroom envornment".
Since they can't do algebra (a muslim plot . . . shhhhhh) many just make it okay that their kids don't either. (I try to think of it as supporting the war on terror. So I'm cool with kids who don't do homework.)

[Buffalobob]

The fact of the matter is we are spending more on education than we ever have in this country and we are getting less in return. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask why that is and to question the need to spend even more without first knowing what the cause is.

Go look at the price of a loaf of bread or a coke and you will find out why education costs more than it used to. Can you buy a coke for six cents any more? The first car I bought costs $3,600 brand new. That car cost me exactly one years salary as a second lieutenant. Now that is not even a down payment.

When I retired and needed some supplemental income to buy more play toys and hunting licenses, I looked at part time teaching. What I saw was a lot of work and very little pay compared to what I can make as a part time consulting engineer.

So here is what pays better than teaching. Wading around in sewage scooping up trash and then handling each and every piece of it. Very peculiar values when our children's education is worth less than wading around in sewage.

[nmap]

Originally Posted by rubberneck

The fact of the matter is we are spending more on education than we ever have in this country and we are getting less in return. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask why that is and to question the need to spend even more without first knowing what the cause is.

...

I guess what I am saying is that in this case the district had what appears to be a reasonable a plan to try and help their kids who were obviously failing and the unions response was sure we'll do it but only if you pay us more.

You might find this little item on superintendent salaries of interest. LINK

Is it unreasonable to ask why the output is disappointing? Not at all. It's a question that should be asked - frequently.

One question we might ask ourselves - what, exactly, is this learning we desire? Is it performance on a standardized test? Are high SAT scores (or other standardized tests) really how we want to measure learning? The accountability movement seems to say yes. The premise is that this common metric will work for all students in every case. But - what if that isn't true? By the way, I don't believe it is true.

From the teacher's perspective, they are being told to do more for no additional pay. I don't know of many (any?) people who are willing to do that. Let's review the issue:

The conditions are adding 25 minutes to the school day, providing tutoring on a rotating schedule before and after school, eating lunch with students once a week, submitting to more rigorous evaluations, attending weekly after-school planning sessions with other teachers and participating in two weeks of training in the summer.

So 25 minutes per day is about 5% more time spent for no pay. The tutoring will add more. The lunch will turn into a tutoring session. The planning sessions take more time. The two weeks training is an additional time cost. Again, I ask the (somewhat rhetorical) question - what other group of workers would be pleased with such a deal?

Now about that tutoring...sounds great, doesn't it? Time on task, and all that. But does it work? I'm not so sure. I've seen it in higher ed, and in many (but of course not all) instances it makes no difference. None.

Summer training? I've been (voluntarily) to a number of such sessions. The speakers were interesting and engaging. I've learned some things I found intriguing. And yet...in terms of teaching...I'm not at all sure they made a bit of difference.

Planning sessions? As in meetings? I'm sorry, but the vast majority of meetings I have gone to have been pointless, boring, useless exercises. One might well ask what one is supposed to plan each week. Dead serious - what, precisely, is a planning session going to accomplish that will improve student learning?

I'm going to make a comment that comes from recollection. I apologize in advance, because I don't have a citation. It was in a book - in fact, I underlined it - but, for the life of me, I cannot find the book. Perhaps someone can corroborate (or, for that matter, refute) it. As I recall, it came from a study done by the Dept. of Labor. It seems that the most important factor in student learning ability is...the zip code. Seriously. And that says some interesting things about all the expensive programs we pursue, doesn't it?

[Pete]

The money trail? Can't find it.

I got all worked up about the school money issue years back when the kids were first starting out in public school. The system was beating us up about the reduced/free lunch paperwork.

So I started asking what I thought were basic questions. Like how many people are employed by the county school system, how much does the system make per child, etc, etc. Simple stuff. You could not get a straight answer from anybody.

How many are employed? The number depends - some/most were funded by the county, some the state and some federal grants. So the total number "Sorry, we don't have that". Total money - depends, you have the county money, Military impact money, state money, and misc federal money.

Getting a straight answer was like sticking you hand into a barrel full of snakes and trying to grab the bottom one's lip.

So using just the county and state figures not the federl impact money, each classroom at the time was pulling in around $90,000 with the teacher getting about $34,000. Hmmmmm.

And don't get me started on Military Impact Aid. The school system is funded by property taxes and everybody who lives off post pays property taxes one way or the other. The base has everything except a High School and there are very few kids in High School living on post.

OK, thats my rant for the day.

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by nmap

So 25 minutes per day is about 5% more time spent for no pay. The tutoring will add more. The lunch will turn into a tutoring session. The planning sessions take more time. The two weeks training is an additional time cost. Again, I ask the (somewhat rhetorical) question - what other group of workers would be pleased with such a deal?

You know there are those of us in the private sector that are not on the clock and often work extended hours for no additional compensation because it was needed. There are also private sector employees taking pay cuts, working much longer days and foregoing vacation time just to keep their jobs. I think you could also make the case that teachers are paid an annual salary but work roughly 10 months out of the year. Asking them to work an additional 5% during the school year when they are already being compensated for that time isn't unreasonable.