Removal of small arms and ammunition from a body

[Odd Job]

Gents

There is a project that I have been invited to assist with, here in the UK. I can't say too much at this point about who or where, but I can say a little about what it involves.

The images below are from a training environment set up by a UK-based forensic response team. This part of the setup concerns the imaging of victims of terrorism and other major incidents.

That's all digital: the first one is a mobile fluoroscopy unit and the second one is a mobile digital radiography unit. The setup that you see there is almost exactly the same as the setup we will have if there is another incident such as the London bombings. Not shown is the dental station and the other booths such as the pathology and odontology booth.
When the bags arrive, they will remain sealed and will be X-rayed in two planes. There will be two or three steps thereafter (not for public consumption) and then various items or components from within the bag will be imaged again.
On the training day there were several issues that came up to do with pattern recognition and potentially hazardous items. I don't know how we are going to get around some of the issues, but that is a whole topic on its own. I am going to leave explosives out of it for now.

What I want to know, hinges on the scenario that a firearm, (or components thereof) or ammunition is detected in the bag and that such components are associated with body parts that may be commingled.
My question: is there a document that advises or protocols the safe handling of these components, when such components MUST be removed from remains that are not intact?
On a very basic level I am sure that such a document would advise against placing one's finger within the trigger guard while removing or handling the weapon. That's obvious to us, but I want something in much more detail, that covers as many bases as possible for firearms that are small enough to fit in that bag, but most likely will be smaller than the body if they go unnoticed at the scene.
The key problem we have here (that I want to rectify) is that the persons conducting and analysing the imaging aren't necessarily firearm savvy. Compared to where I would like us to be, I place myself in that group too.

Your advice is much appreciated.

[Pete]

I'm from the days of the body was hauled off and the maintenance guy cleaned up the area with water, a bucket and a mop.

Nowdays it's the Bio Hazmat Team or contractors in white suits, gloves, barrels of gunk and lots of paper towels.

But on the serious side - anybody who is looking for something should have regular classes and updates on what "something" looks like. LEOs should allow the inspectors to view the items up close and through the machines used to look for them.

Those with an interest in the items being removed should be the ones instructing how they should be removed and handled.

[Odd Job]

anybody who is looking for something should have regular classes and updates on what "something" looks like. LEOs should allow the inspectors to view the items up close and through the machines used to look for them.

Fully agree on that.
The problem is that the initial radiological inspection is done by the same person who handles the X-ray equipment. I was rather distressed to hear a young woman (a radiographer who is in the territorial army and is part of the response team) describe the radiological features of a 'bullet' found in one of those bags, when it was in fact an entire cartridge. Her description of what the item was and how it related to a firearm was alarmingly poor.
The radiographers and pathologists in general here in the UK don't know diddly about arms and ammunition. I guess it is an ignorance promoted and perpetuated by a philosophy of disarming the common man because guns are 'evil.' You can imagine the problems I am going to have, trying to get the proper exposure to small arms that these radiographers need.
Don't get me wrong, they are very good at detecting anatomical damage and anomalies to do with the injuries that have been sustained, but they are no good at recognising, handling or even describing firearms and ammunition.

Those with an interest in the items being removed should be the ones instructing how they should be removed and handled.

Agreed. The connection needs to be made though: the police may (and that is an assumption at this point) recognise what something is, if they have direct sight of it. The problem is that they get a radiograph with a description from the radiographer and that is all they have to work on before somebody reaches into the bag.
One or both parties needs to cross-train: either the LEO must do radiography or the radiographer must learn about small arms. I suspect the latter is easier, but it does not have to be done to the exclusion of the former.

[The Reaper]

OJ:

You are proposing handling a firearm, not a poisonous snake.

Despite what the liberal media would have you believe, ammunition does not spontaneously explode, nor do firearms fire themselves. The hysteria generated by hoplophobes is truly astounding to me. Tommy would be shocked to see what has happened to the nation he fought for. Amazing that you managed to win two World Wars before disarming yourselves.

My biggest concern would be a piece of unexploded ordnance, perhaps lodged in the body. That will require an EOD tech to work with.

Any small arms ammunition found should simply be removed from the remains, and any firearm found should be cleared and rendered safe by competent authority; i.e., someone who actually understands how firearms work. Once the ammunition is removed, the weapon is only as dangerous as a short, oddly-shaped club.

Keep weapons pointed in a safe direction and your finger off the trigger. Perhaps you may want to get a weapons clearing barrel for your facility, if you have not already considered it. At least a stack of sandbags.

1. Place the weapon on safe, if there is a manual safety.

2. Remove the magazine, belt, or ammunition source (such as ammunition from the cylinder of a revolver).

3. Clear the chamber by operating the slide or bolt, and visually inspect the chamber for ammunition. If possible, lock the bolt or slide to the rear and secure it there by means of a chamber flag or zip tie.

The sequence is very important.

If the weapons knowledge is as low as you ahve stated, perhaps you should request a military or LE armorer to be assigned to your team. That would also serve the purpose of preserving the chain of custody of any discovered evidence items.

Best of luck.

TR

[monsterhunter]

I came in contact with something very similar years ago, following the explosion on Turret II of the USS Iowa. If you recall, the explosion occurred with the "breach" still open. All of the powder in the silk bags did not burn. The sections of powder were in a solid form about the size and shape of a 12-gage shotgun shell. Some were broken and some were intact.

Several of these sections of powder were inside the bodies. I didn't know what it was and was asking around. A Navy O-6 said it looked like some type of electronic insulation device. One of the coroners performing the autopsy found one and was hitting it with a hammer. Later on, some EOD folks came through and identified it as gunpowder.

All I can say is, if you don't know what it is, don't mess with it. Bullets and guns may be the least of your worries.

[Odd Job]

@ TR

Despite what the liberal media would have you believe, ammunition does not spontaneously explode, nor do firearms fire themselves. The hysteria generated by hoplophobes is truly astounding to me. Tommy would be shocked to see what has happened to the nation he fought for. Amazing that you managed to win two World Wars before disarming yourselves.

I know that, sir. I am not they. I am South African.
I own guns both in South Africa and in the UK. The same hysteria that astounds you, astounds me too. I try to get people from work to come down to the range with me, but it is slim pickings in terms of volunteers. I have had moderate success with the Ozzies and Kiwis though. I don't know how the British got into this mess but they are headed for a bad place at the moment. Anyway that is another discussion.

The handling of the items for retrieval is sometimes going to be done by the radiographer. There is no getting away from it, because of staffing issues and availability of the proper experts. Some of the points you mention will indeed be in the kind of document I am looking for, but I propose that no operation of any firearm component is done by the radiographer for two reasons:

1) It affects the investigation into the circumstances of the incident and subsequent analysis of whatever components are retrieved.
2) It requires that the radiographer can identify and manipulate components on a wide variety of arms.

There are sundry safety issues that are likely to be quite rare, such as the case that Vincent Di Maio reported, where the safety of a home-modified pistol was engaged and it resulted in the weapon firing full auto. Not common, but such things do have to go into the risk analysis.

I wrote some guidelines a few years ago on how radiographers should accept and store firearms from patients for X-ray, and the safe and courteous way of handing them back afterwards. The hospital, like the temporary mortuary has no place for a backstop and there are time and staffing constraints to boot. It is much easier if a living patient can hand over an intact firearm than if the item has to be dug out of a bag with who-know-what in it.

What I need is something similar to what I wrote, but with the added variables of commingled remains, firearm and ammunition components that are not macroscopically seen, may be damaged, unrecognised, modified etc.
All of this is in a forensic atmosphere.

As regards the chain of evidence, that is a good point and we have facilities for that, whether it is a piece of mandible or a spare magazine. The radiographers on the team are capable of bagging and tagging items and also handling legal enquiries that may arise from the analysis of those items.