12-14-2006, 16:05
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#1
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Eglin Main
Posts: 144
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Billets on the ODB...
During my deployment, quite a few of our guys have been "tasked out" or attached to CJSOTF, or other teams out at FOBs. Sometimes this has broken up team cohesion, or brought about other negative consequences.
Since our actions in OIF/OEF aren't likely to be over anytime soon, has there been any thought given to assigning at least one MP team to the ODB to handle all EC/POW aspects until such time that they can be transferred to the nearest holding facility?
This would be much the same as a CSH has a team to help with physical security and whatever other tasks the commander can dream up (MP=multi-purpose).
Adding a small team of MPs to the company TOE would seem to help eliminate the problem of having to seek resources from outside units and help streamline the operations of the ODAs in the field, ODBs supporting them, and the transfer of those captured.
Just curious.
less than 60 days!!
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SRT31B is offline
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12-14-2006, 16:10
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,472
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So what your saying is you would like MP's to be attached to SF ODA's so you can wear a SF Combat Patch 
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7624U is offline
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12-14-2006, 17:26
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#3
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas Texas Metro Area / Back from the sandbox for now...
Posts: 74
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Hahahaha...can you see SF and Big Army agreeing to that 
....and what 7624U said.
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Kraut783 is offline
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12-14-2006, 17:41
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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A Company could use..
Lets see. An SF Company could use some MPs for PWs, an Infantry squad could help with some guard/security issues, so the B Team can operate 24/7 a beefed up Ops/Comms slice could be used, lets not forget riggers, a few cooks and .... did I forget anybody?
I don't see it.
Pete
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Pete is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:07
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pete
Lets see. An SF Company could use some MPs for PWs, an Infantry squad could help with some guard/security issues, so the B Team can operate 24/7 a beefed up Ops/Comms slice could be used, lets not forget riggers, a few cooks and .... did I forget anybody?
I don't see it.
Pete
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Nurses.
Lots of nurses.
A finance detachment, with plenty of money.
And some dedicated aviation assets. 
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:10
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#6
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Eglin Main
Posts: 144
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The point being...
During this past year, there have been a number of times that members of my company were pulled to CJSOTF to support them. This was in addition to the regular missions assigned that we deployed for, but now we have to do it short handed.
Now, I do realize its my battalion's fault for sending us just above the minimum authorized strength for the company, and we also need to adapt, improvise, and overcome... but at the same time, in order to make things easier on units like mine where every body counts why not incorporate those people into the organic makeup of the taskforce? Doing so would allow the permanent presence of MP soldiers for the duties that (according to DA) other MOSs can no longer perform. I'm not gonna lie, anyone can do it, but for some reason (post Abu Gharib) big green army pushed for all EC/EPW missions to be handled by MPs. This put a bigger strain on the regiment and pushed a lot of us, such as my company, into the I/R business when we're supposed to be combat support.
I'm quite confident that anyone in group, QP or not, can handle their business and there really isn't a need for us to be there... but I don't get paid to make decisions like that and someone a lot higher than me decided to take our guys to work with the teams. Since this is an ongoing thing, the question was simply "does this sound like it would make things simpler?" Case in point, the CSM from 3/3 (i think) arguing with the BDE CSM for my taskforce about keeping personnel at their location or returning them. CJSOTF wanted them, the taskforce wanted them back since that wasn't their original mission. It just turned into a big pissing contest and the rest of us got screwed when the manpower requirements went up and we didnt have bodies to fill those slots since they were at kAAF supporting the teams.
Yes, we do have a few people in my company now authorized to wear the patch, and a few of them were in the right place at the right time and actually got to do a few missions with some of the teams. But, that again was a problem with my command because... you guessed it, "thats not our mission, knock it off."
Obviously, the stigma of being an MP is still equally as present here as it is in other circles... I got it... Air Assault, moving out to draw fire.
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SRT31B is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:18
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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MP?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SRT31B
.....Obviously, the stigma of being an MP is still equally as present here as it is in other circles... I got it... Air Assault, moving out to draw fire.
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You were doing good up until the end. As a SGM I would beg, borrow or steal any warm body I could get my hand on prior to a deployment. All so I would not have to steal from the A Teams.
What I would want and what the Army will slot/pay for are not the same.
Sure the CSMs were in a pissing contest. They were fighting over warm bodies, not MPs. If the SF Folks lost you they would have to replace you out of hide, and that ain't cheap.
Has nothing to do with being an MP.
Pete
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Pete is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:22
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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I liked TR's answer:
Reminds me of a story told about the Tac Fighter Wing at Da Nang.
They requested 800 lbs of nurse's. They thought just maybe they would get 8 or 10 with the toatal weight being 800 lbs.
Plane with nurse's called the Wing CP and ask for an escort and transportation for the new nurse's.
Half the Wing fell out to meet the new gals. Plane landed and 2 nurse's got off, total weight 800 lbs.
BMT
__________________
Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:26
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#9
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Eglin Main
Posts: 144
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I gotcha, makes sense. Don't always see the big picture at my level. 
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SRT31B is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:28
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: America, the Beautiful
Posts: 3,193
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Despite being a requirement for the current operations, it won't happen.
Why?
'Cause TDAs are really built for the "peacetime" Army...
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Warrior-Mentor is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:35
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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SRT:
SF TO&Es have at times, included MPs, Engineers, CA, PSYOP, etc.
They may again at some point in the future.
Sorry that you feel that you are being mismanaged. We would love to have more attachments, but Big Army makes non-SOF TO&E attachments.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-14-2006, 18:49
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#12
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Eglin Main
Posts: 144
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No prob, sir. Just an idea.
Drink water and drive on... 
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SRT31B is offline
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12-14-2006, 20:14
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Nurses.
Lots of nurses.
A finance detachment, with plenty of money.
And some dedicated aviation assets.
TR |
Remember when Slinky KIAd those nurses' rabbit at Palmarola? I can't remember the name of their club or little area or whatever it was. Good times.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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12-14-2006, 20:23
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
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okay, so my memory ain't what it used to be...but it seems during the Vietnam era, there was a concept of a theater-level SAF...(Security Assistance Force, Security Action Force, CRS, CRAFT, etc)...
the force was centered around a light infantry brigade and a Special Forces group...there were various support elements attached to the commands, as TR stated...
i seem to recall that the 173rd/1st SF were one SAF, the 193rd and the 8th SFGA were another...the last time i dealt with this doctrine was after OCS when Richard and i were indentured to the FID/IDAD committee of the Infantry School while waiting for IOBC...
i do know the 1st Group had an Engineer detachement (563rd or 536th, IIRC)...
and i seem to recall that there were attached MPs, as well...but that was another era, and the task organization was for a specific purpose...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
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lksteve is offline
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12-15-2006, 00:15
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Remember when Slinky KIAd those nurses' rabbit at Palmarola? I can't remember the name of their club or little area or whatever it was. Good times.
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All of the times on 54 were good times, hermano!
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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