'Disproportionate' in What Moral Universe?

[Gypsy]

Great article on the current hand wringing of Israel's "disproportionate actions".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072701725.html

'Disproportionate' in What Moral Universe?

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, July 28, 2006; Page A25

What other country, when attacked in an unprovoked aggression across a recognized international frontier, is then put on a countdown clock by the world, given a limited time window in which to fight back, regardless of whether it has restored its own security?

What other country sustains 1,500 indiscriminate rocket attacks into its cities -- every one designed to kill, maim and terrorize civilians -- and is then vilified by the world when it tries to destroy the enemy's infrastructure and strongholds with precision-guided munitions that sometimes have the unintended but unavoidable consequence of collateral civilian death and suffering?

To hear the world pass judgment on the Israel-Hezbollah war as it unfolds is to live in an Orwellian moral universe. With a few significant exceptions (the leadership of the United States, Britain, Australia, Canada and a very few others), the world -- governments, the media, U.N. bureaucrats -- has completely lost its moral bearings.

The word that obviates all thinking and magically inverts victim into aggressor is "disproportionate," as in the universally decried "disproportionate Israeli response."

When the United States was attacked at Pearl Harbor, it did not respond with a parallel "proportionate" attack on a Japanese naval base. It launched a four-year campaign that killed millions of Japanese, reduced Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki to cinders, and turned the Japanese home islands into rubble and ruin.

Disproportionate? No. When one is wantonly attacked by an aggressor, one has every right -- legal and moral -- to carry the fight until the aggressor is disarmed and so disabled that it cannot threaten one's security again. That's what it took with Japan.

Britain was never invaded by Germany in World War II. Did it respond to the Blitz and V-1 and V-2 rockets with "proportionate" aerial bombardment of Germany? Of course not. Churchill orchestrated the greatest air campaign and land invasion in history, which flattened and utterly destroyed Germany, killing untold innocent German women and children in the process.

The perversity of today's international outcry lies in the fact that there is indeed a disproportion in this war, a radical moral asymmetry between Hezbollah and Israel: Hezbollah is deliberately trying to create civilian casualties on both sides while Israel is deliberately trying to minimize civilian casualties, also on both sides.

In perhaps the most blatant terror campaign from the air since the London Blitz, Hezbollah is raining rockets on Israeli cities and villages. These rockets are packed with ball bearings that can penetrate automobiles and shred human flesh. They are meant to kill and maim. And they do.

But it is a dual campaign. Israeli innocents must die in order for Israel to be terrorized. But Lebanese innocents must also die in order for Israel to be demonized, which is why Hezbollah hides its fighters, its rockets, its launchers, its entire infrastructure among civilians. Creating human shields is a war crime. It is also a Hezbollah specialty.

On Wednesday CNN cameras showed destruction in Tyre. What does Israel have against Tyre and its inhabitants? Nothing. But the long-range Hezbollah rockets that have been raining terror on Haifa are based in Tyre. What is Israel to do? Leave untouched the launch sites that are deliberately placed in built-up areas?

Had Israel wanted to destroy Lebanese civilian infrastructure, it would have turned out the lights in Beirut in the first hour of the war, destroying the billion-dollar power grid and setting back Lebanon 20 years. It did not do that. Instead it attacked dual-use infrastructure -- bridges, roads, airport runways -- and blockaded Lebanon's ports to prevent the reinforcement and resupply of Hezbollah. Ten thousand Katyusha rockets are enough. Israel was not going to allow Hezbollah 10,000 more.

Israel's response to Hezbollah has been to use the most precise weaponry and targeting it can. It has no interest, no desire to kill Lebanese civilians. Does anyone imagine that it could not have leveled south Lebanon, to say nothing of Beirut? Instead, in the bitter fight against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, it has repeatedly dropped leaflets, issued warnings, sent messages by radio and even phone text to Lebanese villagers to evacuate so that they would not be harmed.

Israel knows that these leaflets and warnings give the Hezbollah fighters time to escape and regroup. The advance notification as to where the next attack is coming has allowed Hezbollah to set up elaborate ambushes. The result? Unexpectedly high Israeli infantry casualties. Moral scrupulousness paid in blood. Israeli soldiers die so that Lebanese civilians will not, and who does the international community condemn for disregarding civilian life?

letters@charleskrauthammer.com

[CPTAUSRET]

"Israel knows that these leaflets and warnings give the Hezbollah fighters time to escape and regroup. The advance notification as to where the next attack is coming has allowed Hezbollah to set up elaborate ambushes. The result? Unexpectedly high Israeli infantry casualties. Moral scrupulousness paid in blood. Israeli soldiers die so that Lebanese civilians will not, and who does the international community condemn for disregarding civilian life?"

letters@charleskrauthammer.com

[Monsoon65]

Great article. The use of human shields like that which Hezbollah are using is never really spoken about in the press. They like to reflect on the fact that they do nice things, like build hospitals and schools.

Which are then used to cache weapons.

[Solid]

Totally agree with the article in that I do not by any means consider Israeli use of force excessive- but hasn't history demonstrated that by and large, punitive air campaigns turn civilian populations against the aggressor, not their home govt?

In this case, while I think that Israel has done the right thing in using force, I would have to disagree with what KIND of force they are using. Data suggests that airpower has limited coercive effectiveness in these kind of situations.

Thoughts?

Solid

[Cincinnatus]

The idea of proportionality is, in large measure, a chimera born of our desire to "play fair." Fighting fair is oxymoronic (and just plain moronic), if someone were to shoot at me and miss, I should then miss when returning fire? Nonsense.

Eglund at the UN has condemned Hezbollah for hiding among civilians, causing the Israelis to fire at them and thereby increasing civilian casualties. There was an interview on "Fresh Air" earlier this week with Professor Daniel Byman (author of "Deadly Connections: States That Sponsor Terrorism"), which pointed out that Hezbollah sees this as an entirely legitimate tactic and that they believe it was their ability to absorb casualties and keep fighting that led to their perceived success in driving Israeli forces from Lebanon previously. Hezbollah cares little for the dead and wounded that aren't Shia, and apparently feels that those that are died for a good cause and will be rewarded in paradise, if I understood the professor correctly.

I have a hard time with this sort of fatalism and the whole martyrdom complex. I don't know what the answer is. If the IDF stands back and bombs, it is accused of being indiscriminate and inviting civilian casualties, if they go in they lose troops fighting the battle Hezbollah wants to fight. I certainly feel badly for the civilians trapped between the warring parties, but I can't blame the IDF for protecting their own. OTOH, I can't buy into the "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out" mindset, either.

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Solid

I I would have to disagree with what KIND of force they are using. Data suggests that airpower has limited coercive effectiveness in these kind of situations.

data has never been in a bunker at Fort Benning when a 500lb bomb blows up outside...data has never taken cover in a ravine 5 miles from where a stick of bombs were dropped on a bombing range at Nellis...data (nor i) has ever experienced an ARCLIGHT...data never walked down the Highway of Death between KC and Um Qasr...

i would argue the contrary...

[Cincinnatus]

Cross posted with Jack. I hope the IDF intends to damage Hezbollah badly enough to degrade their ability to mount attacks against Israel, destroy or capture most of Hezbollah's rockets, and demonstrate that they will not play "tit for tat." Whether these are the IDF's actual goals, I don't know.

I can't judge to what degree the calls are being made by IDF commanders, and to what degree they are being made by politicians for other than tactical reasons. Nor am I able to judge to what degree we, and others, are exertin influence. I think, though, that the sentiment that Hezbollah be dealt a crippling blow is widespread here, in Israel, in Europe to a greater degree than their public pronouncements would lead one to believe, and by many entities thouhout the Arab world.

[The Reaper]

Just in.

Well said.

TR

Subject: Miller on Israel

"A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need. Here we go:

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the land in the 1967 war, Gaza was owned by Egypt , the West Bank was owned by Jordan , and there were no "Palestinians. " As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians, " weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing: No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David . But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel . They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel . Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mid east. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one. Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five Million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals.. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend, Kevin Rooney, made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and delieving horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. Now, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of super models who've just had their drugs taken away. However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11th our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint. If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan ."

[pulque]

I googled the article. It looks like Larry Miller wrote it.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/conten...1/161yaihr.asp

Dunno if Larry Miller is Jewish or not.

[Cincinnatus]

Nice.

[NSDQ]

Originally Posted by Gypsy

Great article on the current hand wringing of Israel's "disproportionate actions".

letters@charleskrauthammer.com

Here Here. Thanks for sharing the article.

NSDQ

[Gypsy]

Who ever wrote it TR, I like it.

You're welcome NSDQ!

[NSDQ]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

You don't have to like Dennis Miller to appreciate this. For those of you who don't like Dennis Miller, who is not Jewish, you may want to reconsider after reading his brilliant comments that follow. Please pass it on to your friends. For those who don't know, Dennis Miller is a comedian who has a show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO. Although he is not Jewish, he recently had the following to say about the Middle East situation:

Outstanding. Mr Miller is a hard one to put in a label. I have found myself on the opposite side of viewpoints with him many times. BOTOH there has been several times, like now, I could not agree with him more. What I respect about him is his ability to stimulate intelligent thought, that is if someone were looking for that. Unfortunately, most seem to want to drift or be lead thru life & whatever side of the table they were raised on is where they will die. Thanks for sharing the info TR

NSDQ

[12B4S]

As I heard the term 'Disproportionate force' Used in the past week or so. It was just typical of the UN, the media, as well as many governments. The articles posted by Gypsy and TR are dead on. I have been around awhile and lived alot of this history. Nooo, I don't go back to the Dead Sea Scrolls.

If someone attacks you, your family, your Country. You go after them with damn near everything you have. Disproportionate force........... what a crock of scheisse PC term.

One on one. In your home, on the street, wherever. Some guy pulls a knife, demands this, that, whatever and comes toward you and you are armed with a handgun, you shoot the slug. Yep. Plenty of lawyers and wimp politicians will make you the object of thier witch hunt. Disproportionate force........? No such thing, when defending yourself, Country, family or anyone else that is being attacked, just becuase they are going through thier everyday life. Gettin' a bit tired of this crap............

And this 600 civilians or ever how many it is today in Lebanon, is another crock!!!! Yeah, there have been some and for the obvious reasons. Those civilian casualty figures are way off.

Done now and tried to keep it nice.

[The Reaper]

Where are the kidnapped Israeli soldiers and why have they not been returned?

If Israel withdraws and peace is declared, who will disarm the Hezbollah and guarantee that no more rockets will be fired?

Change the roles.

As noted, if an armed group in Mexico crossed over and snatched US military personnel, then started shelling (or rocketing) El Paso and San Diego, I doubt that we would be as worried about world opinion or collateral damage either. Well, except for our mainstream media.

TR