John Murtha..Trade honor for political gain?

Five-O · 05-30-2006, 07:18

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/

How can it be the people of Pennsylvania elected this coward and traitor to office? I am embarrassed to admit I live in PA and offer my most sincere apolgies. Mr Murtha, what ever happened to due process and the assumption of innocence? Especially during combat operations were these Marines just saw a buddy killed in a horrific manner? Maybe their actions were unjustified, maybe there is/was a cover up....maybe not. The point is to allow the UCMJ process to unfold and the chips fall where they may; not accuse these warriors of murder on sunday morning TV. Has the political cesspool that shit out John Murtha ( D-PA) that sick now that our elected officials use American warriors as wind dummies or worse? It seems the left has placed political gain over justice. This is just the latest of a series of Murtha-isms to come to light. Actions and words like those of Murtha do nothing but give aid, comfort and a ray of hope to an enemy that is beat up and on the run everywhere we are.

Gypsy · 05-30-2006, 19:22

I'll try to be nice as possible. I don't much care for anyone, regardless of prior service, who proclaims guilt unequivocally about things that happen in country by our Military. Especially when they weren't there.

That said, I absolutely cannot stand Murtha or his agenda. It's said once a Marine always a Marine. In his case...I have to wonder.

**Bill Harsey** · 05-30-2006, 19:28

I've held fire on this since seeing Murtha on the Sunday morning news shows.
Let's just say I really agree with Gypsy.

Gypsy · 05-30-2006, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

I've held fire on this since seeing Murtha on the Sunday morning news shows.
Let's just say I really agree with Gypsy.

Then you also know what I really wanted to say...

Five-O · 06-01-2006, 06:44

Bill,
I appreciate you sensibility with checking fire. I obviously have no idea what information Murtha has seen, but I'm willing to bet he has not seen ALL relevant information regarding the Marine engagement. Even if he has (which I am sure he has not) how can he ethically/morally justify going on national TV calling these Marine murders of the worst kind. If it turns out the incident was unjustified UCMJ will determine that, not politicians with an obvious agenda. It just enrages me to see an elected official defame warriors for political gain....and that is all this is. IMHO, no need to hold fire.

**Bill Harsey** · 06-01-2006, 08:45

Five-O,
Thanks. Your speaking clearly and I agree.

I was thinking maybe Murtha should spend more time and resources finding who's making the IED bombs over there so we didn't have to worry so much about how the guys getting blown up by them are going to react.

CPTAUSRET · 06-01-2006, 09:49

Murtha has a f@cking agenda, and he is throwing Marines under the wheels to enhance his agenda! His agenda is that he is against this war (so be it) but don't scapegoat these Marines to get there!

It may look bad, but he definitely was not there, he is spouting off for political gain!

That sucks!

Terry

dennisw · 06-01-2006, 10:03

There is no way that I identify with or call Mr. Murtha a kindred spirit, but I don't believe the problem can be focused solely on him. The essence of the problem is that the only thing we hear from our politicians or mainstream news media is negative stories. There are a million examples of heroism and heart warming stories from Iraq or Afghanistan, but unless we read someone's blog or get an email from a friend they go unsaid and unnoticed. Apparently, heroism is too pedestrian to be news. So we are left in this isolated foxhole having to brave the never ending barrage of negative press. Our collective hearts break with every story.

Without this particular board and personal diligence, I would not know anything about the half of the story that is left untold by our media. So when we hear stories about folks like Mr. Murtha with are enraged and righteously indignant. This cannot be a healthy situation.

My personal anger stems from the inherent opinion that this lack of objective coverage of the war and the Bush administration is part of a concerted effort by the left to steal our government and filter history through their left tinted glasses. This is the source of my angst. The fact that Murtha is a former Marine, only add fuel to the fire.

For example, HBO has aired two war related programs. One was called War Letters which dealt with soldiers who were killed in action and surrounded the sadness of their families. The other is Iraq ER, focusing on treating the wounded soldiers. I'm not saying we should ignore these stories, but they are not the only stories available!

Also, how do the insurgents receive a free pass? Hiding behind civilians! Shouldn't this be a major component of the story? Why isn't the world outraged by this? Why are we not calling out the imaans or the Islamic religious leaders? Did the Prophet Muhammad advocate cowardice? And why are there no longer any embedded reporters with our troops who can tell the whole story?

Finally, can we win this war and still abide by a set of rules which is comfortable to the west?

Croooz · 06-01-2006, 10:11

Now I only know what everyone else does, which is whatever I see or read. Having said that, how long does it take the UCMJ to convene? Time magazine ran the report in March but had turned their results over to the government in January but the incident occured in November of 2005. The government only started the investigation in January and now it's reopening the case?

Murtha claims to have photographic evidence and seems more concerned with looking into why the apparent cover-up and making sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. I agree that this should not be tried in the court of public opinion, it's now May 2006. Outside pressure is something the military sometimes needs in incidents like this but a former Marine should know better....keep it at the lowest level. He could've made efforts to address this from within.

Why were 3 commanders relieved of duty after the incident? Murtha also said that "this is not something our troops do..." He emphasized some points that I've seen here about winning the hearts & minds because we're not going to win this militarily. He debunked any apparent successes we've had because if the "interior and defense" aren't established then we haven't succeded in anything.

His main point seems to be is that this is what happens when troops are put in situations where there is no exit strategy and they are more in a civil war than a hunt for terrorists. He went on to say that the Iraqis are the only one's who can solve their own problems.

I agree that his agenda is to get out of Iraq. However I also believe that no one wants another Abu Gharib and will do just about anything to avoid a scandal. Time will tell if he is right in his assertions based on the information he's been briefed on.

What is without question is as a vet this incident should've stayed in the military and not broadcast to the nation. Time magazine presented it so Murtha should've been pressing from the inside and not using the media.

I think it's an incident that deserves attention but not this kind. Do we ever learn from past mistakes?

CPTAUSRET · 06-01-2006, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croooz

Now I only know what everyone else does, which is whatever I see or read. Having said that, how long does it take the UCMJ to convene? Time magazine ran the report in March but had turned their results over to the government in January but the incident occured in November of 2005. The government only started the investigation in January and now it's reopening the case?

Murtha claims to have photographic evidence and seems more concerned with looking into why the apparent cover-up and making sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. I agree that this should not be tried in the court of public opinion, it's now May 2006. Outside pressure is something the military sometimes needs in incidents like this but a former Marine should know better....keep it at the lowest level. He could've made efforts to address this from within.

Why were 3 commanders relieved of duty after the incident? Murtha also said that "this is not something our troops do..." He emphasized some points that I've seen here about winning the hearts & minds because we're not going to win this militarily. He debunked any apparent successes we've had because if the "interior and defense" aren't established then we haven't succeded in anything.

His main point seems to be is that this is what happens when troops are put in situations where there is no exit strategy and they are more in a civil war than a hunt for terrorists. He went on to say that the Iraqis are the only one's who can solve their own problems.

I agree that his agenda is to get out of Iraq. However I also believe that no one wants another Abu Gharib and will do just about anything to avoid a scandal. Time will tell if he is right in his assertions based on the information he's been briefed on.

What is without question is as a vet this incident should've stayed in the military and not broadcast to the nation. Time magazine presented it so Murtha should've been pressing from the inside and not using the media.

I think it's an incident that deserves attention but not this kind. Do we ever learn from past mistakes?

I don't have much time, so this will be short.

Was Murtha as quick to condemn Ted Kennedy for the Mary Jo Kopechne death and cover-up? If not, why not? Was he outraged over Clinton's sexual escapades with a 20 year old intern in the Oval Office? Why not?

There are many other examples of behavior which he may not have been outraged about because of political afiliation, to me that's wrong as hell!

Terry

dennisw · 06-01-2006, 11:43

Quote:

There are many other examples of behavior which he may not have been outraged about because of political afiliation, to me that's wrong as hell!

Can't say it any plainer then this. Especially in this case where the folks involved really do not have a forum to defend themselves.

HOLLiS · 06-01-2006, 12:14

In another forum, the anti-American buffoons are having a field day with murtha's betrayal of our country. He probably has done more for the anti-war crowd than any 1000 terrorists or their minons of appologists.

I would be glad to contribute to his defeat in his re-election bid, or even donate some rope.

Goggles Pizano · 06-01-2006, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

In another forum, the anti-American buffoons are having a field day with murtha's betrayal of our country. He probably has done more for the anti-war crowd than any 1000 terrorists or their minons of appologists.

I would be glad to contribute to his defeat in his re-election bid, or even donate some rope.

I think he will get as much play as that toolbag Sheehan then run out of steam. I will contribute to his competitor's campaign ASAP! I cannot believe a Marine would do this to another Marine.

Gypsy · 06-01-2006, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisw

There is no way that I identify with or call Mr. Murtha a kindred spirit, but I don't believe the problem can be focused solely on him. The essence of the problem is that the only thing we hear from our politicians or mainstream news media is negative stories.

True enough, re the LSM (lame stream media), and I don't think there's any love here for the "reporters" jumping all over themselves to print or broadcast this "news" without full facts.

That said, had Murtha not been flapping his gums like he was there and had first hand knowledge....well you get the point.

Tubbs · 06-01-2006, 22:48

As far as I am concerned Murtha has shown us where his loyalties lie and no longer has the integrity required to be considered a former Marine. He belongs in the same catagory of scumbag EX-Marines like the kid who shot and killed Dime Bag Darryl (and several others at that concert).