11-29-2007, 12:05
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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Help me save your life-this DOESN'T work
This is for Soldiers and their Leaders to take notice and help me save their lives.
I have been here in Sadr City for the past 15 months, have had right at 100 critical traumas on my table. I have seen about every sort of "gear set up" on my patients as I cut it off trying to access the man or woman underneath.
For those of you who utilize the IBA to mount your items, please read up.
The side plate attachment points and your axillary protectors are important.
1) More and more I am seeing where the axillary protectors are folded DOWN into the side plate pocket because they are "uncomfortable" in the armpit. This now exposes the armpit, which has been the area of multiple round and IED shrapnel hits allowing metal to penetrate the chest cavity.
2) The side plate attachment points MUST be left exposed so we can get to the snaps. When you are on the table, we unsnap the front snaps of your sideplates, pull the attachment ribbon, exposing the 2 side, "pull to tighten" and single elastic straps that we then CUT. Once these are cut, we cut the elastic of the axillary protector and flip the entire front of your vest straight up and behind you so you are now only laying on your back plate. We can then pull this out from under you.
Total time with a mangled, loaded vest and live patient about 15 seconds.
IF those side plate snaps are covered by gear....it takes us 3-5 MINUTES to cut you out of that gear.
I have seen so many of these, especially on the new arrivals, that today I decided to stop a soldier and take a photo of exactly what I was talking about.
Notice the folded down axillary protector AND the GP pouch placed over the top of the side plate attachment snaps (Laser Pointer spot).
Thanks for taking the time to read...help us help you. Seconds really do make the difference
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
Last edited by Eagle5US; 11-30-2007 at 03:46.
Reason: Because I was corrected
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Eagle5US is offline
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11-29-2007, 12:14
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,821
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How about a product improvement recommendation for the IBA, Doc?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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11-29-2007, 12:19
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#3
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC area
Posts: 381
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I've sent this out to my husband to show to his class at Riley MITT training.
Thanks for sharing!!
__________________
"I had cast my lot with a soldier, and where he was, was home to me." - Martha Summerhayes Vanished Arizona
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Shar is offline
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11-29-2007, 12:50
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#4
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,374
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Good Info Doc...
Request permission to repost for widest dissemination. Also recommend you send this to PM soldier. They can get a message out regarding this.
__________________
D-3129 Life
"If one day you decide to know yourself...you'll have to choose the warrior path...You'll reach the darkness of your spirit.... Then, if you overcome your fears....You will know who you are."
"De Oppresso Liber"
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Snaquebite is offline
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11-29-2007, 12:54
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
How about a product improvement recommendation for the IBA, Doc?
TR
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Sir,
The new, releasable, vests have the side plates high and incorporated into a cummberbun assembly that falls away; much like the Eagle CIRAS - MAR. The key for this new system, that has similarities to the old....is that folks will have to load it as they are going to wear it, THEN PULL THE CABLE to see if it falls apart like it is supposed to.
If the "pieces" are all attached by MALICE clips and the vest stays together when the cable is pulled...the entire purpose is defeated
These new systems will be a tremendous improvement...but they are not (yet) widely fielded. I have only seen 2, so I am not able to make any educated recommendations on the new design.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
Last edited by Eagle5US; 11-29-2007 at 12:57.
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Eagle5US is offline
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11-29-2007, 13:02
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaquebite
Good Info Doc...
Request permission to repost for widest dissemination.
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Feel free 
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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11-29-2007, 15:00
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle5US
These new systems will be a tremendous improvement...but they are not (yet) widely fielded. I have only seen 2, so I am not able to make any educated recommendations on the new design.
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PM Soldier had a small display set up at the Army-Air Force game. They had several examples of the current IBA, new cut-away style, and aviation kit. The reps there said that all troops deploying to AFG are getting the new cut-away vest issued as of now, but it'll be a year or so before that fielding plan hits for Iraq. You could always extend your tour to see if the new vests are up to snuff. 
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Razor is offline
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11-29-2007, 20:50
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Culpeper, Virginia
Posts: 203
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Eagle,
Thanks for getting the word out on these observations - we will get this information passed to CRC so they can BTB the force.
Appreciate the photograph, crystal clear.
Charlie Mike-
Karl
Last edited by Karl.Masters; 11-29-2007 at 20:51.
Reason: spelling
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Karl.Masters is offline
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11-30-2007, 03:51
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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Original post edited
OK Folks,
As I have been corrected on another board, I edited the original post to reflect that the axillary protectors do not protect from "sniper" hits only "gunshot" hits and their original issue purpose was to protect from IED shrapnel, not rounds.
OK-so...in the spirit of the thread, if this area remains unprotected, it provides an unobstructed pathway for metal to enter your chest cavity and kill you. True, the soft armor may not protect you from the insult...but then again it just might.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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11-30-2007, 19:36
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: America, the Beautiful
Posts: 3,193
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Eagle,
Great stuff. Would love to distro to Army Staff and push this up (and out).
What's the chance you could show one set up correct and one set up wrong?
(2x Power point slides with labels; one what's good and one what's not).
That way guys can get it quick and easy.
Will also pass to COIN Academy as well...
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Warrior-Mentor is offline
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11-30-2007, 22:17
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#11
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast
Posts: 114
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Eagle,
Finding the time in what must be a very hectic schedule for you to post info that can save lives is truly commendable. The example you have set here has inspired me to try to be more helpful to others in my profession. Thanks for the inspiration and your service to this country.
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tst43 is offline
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11-30-2007, 22:34
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor
Eagle,
What's the chance you could show one set up correct and one set up wrong?
(2x Power point slides with labels; one what's good and one what's not).
That way guys can get it quick and easy.
Will also pass to COIN Academy as well...
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I'll get it done this week.
Thanks for the positive reception folks.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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12-01-2007, 11:14
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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Due to many requests...I have done a short (6 slides) powerpoint presentation, with photos, for walkthrough of our vest removal process demonstrating why accessibility is important.
If anyone wants it - shoot me an e-mail.
ussfpa@gmail.com
Eagle
Warrior-Mentor yours is outbound
Shar - I sent one to your husband as I do not have your e-mail address. 
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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12-01-2007, 14:54
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
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Eagle-
As an 18D turned Doctor, you've gone from a Team of 12 to a Team of thousands, and kept the same attitude as a small Team 18D - these guys are MY medical responsibility, I have to make them think about what they're doing.
Thanks for watching out for all our soldiers.
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"
Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb
Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
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x SF med is offline
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12-01-2007, 15:19
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Culpeper, Virginia
Posts: 203
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Eagle,
Thanks for sending the powerpoint. I just bursted you an e-mail with the background on the original IBA requirements for doffing from a prone unconcious Soldier and some recommendations. Great job on the brief-
V/r
Karl
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Karl.Masters is offline
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