MRAP/APV Article in USA Today

[BigWave]

All,

This cover story in the USA Today provides some solid insight into the MRAP/Armored vehicle issues that our military faces. A friend of mine was interviewed in the article. I am interested in your comments/thoughts.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/militar...ed-cover_N.htm

[Pete]

Only one of which I will go into.

When this first got started years back the call was on to build up armored vehicles for the troops to ride in. Others said that the IEDs would just get bigger.

We now have more armor and larger IEDs.

Wang on anything long enough and you can open it up. A mobility kill changes you from a moving target to a sitting target.

[7624U]

Also look at the wt. MRAP is 38,000lbs Hummv is 12,500lbs
How bout we just change our tactic's, stop driving these huge convoy's during the day, issue better NVG's to everyone instead and have a radio and FBCB2 on every truck the army and marines have.
how is the MRAP agaist shoulder fired weapons ? looks to me like its actualy a larger and slower target.

I am also a fan of the CROWS system ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CROWS ) that would keep most the gunner deaths down.

[Buffalobob]

Something wrong with walking?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Buffalobob

Something wrong with walking?

You mean other than the fact that it is hundreds of miles, that they need to secure MSRs, that the convoys are frequently escorting hundreds of tons of cargo, or that unarmored troops fare even worse against IEDs?

TR

[Ret10Echo]

Another addition.....

In other MRAP news, DT received a release from BAE Systems yesterday describing a product they’ve developed for the Army and Marine Corps MRAP fleet called the Lightweight RPG Protection Kit, or LROD. I’ll leave DT readers to draw their own conclusions on this, but it seems interesting that a vehicle that is supposed to protect troops against powerful roadside bombs needs to wear a cage around it for RPG protection. But then again, so does the Stryker, which is a highly protective vehicle in its own right.

The BAE release follows:

LROD is a lightweight, modular bar-armor system composed of an aluminium alloy that provides protection against RPGs without compromising the operational capabilities of the vehicle. Weighing less than half of comparable steel designs, LROD bolts onto the vehicle without welding or cutting, and can be repaired in the field.

The Army will procure 12 additional LROD kits for delivery this year to operational units in response to an Army Operational Need Statement. The Army has expressed interest in procuring additional kits for the entire RG31 and RG31A1 fleet. The RG31 was developed by BAE Systems in South Africa.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003606.html

[7624U]

Looks Like the RedNeck Wagon From hell, all it needs now is a Aircon Unit. liquid nailed into a window and we can put it into the RedNeck Eng. Thread.

[RTK]

I still think the MRAP looks like one of those safari cruisers you see on Wild Kingdom.

I'm wondering how the cage affects visibility. IIRC the Stryker doesn't have a cage that impedes the driver's vision. Nor does the M113.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by RTK

I still think the MRAP looks like one of those safari cruisers you see on Wild Kingdom...

Bone Crusher from Transformers is what I thought of when I saw the MRAP.

Yes I saw the movie.

Crip

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

....Yes I saw the movie.

Crip

Yeah, but where is the long arm with the car shovel/rake thingy?

Yes, I saw the movie with Thing One and Thing two also

pete

[blue02hd]

I wanted to add my .02 on this topic. Been mulling this around for a few days, and I keep coming back to it.

Where and when did the 100% casualty free standard of prosecuting warfare become doctrine?

I am all about safety, and have actually had my 4th point of contact saved thanks to a blast shield wielded to a humvee. My gunner is also alive due to the upgraded armor. I have seen friends fall to IEDS, and still contact others that have been maimed and wounded on the job from IED's. War sucks, but I think I am preaching to the choir on that point. I know the risks, as do the other QP's I had had the privilege to serve in Iraq and Afghan with.

I am concerned with the ever increasing view that we need to walk around like Robocops in milion dollar vehicles with eye, ear, nose, arm, groin, knee, and finger protection in order to stay safe. Forgive me, but what about the mission? Our military has been conducting missions long before kevlar was an issued item. Sometimes we need to remember that the soldier is what makes the difference between life and death, not CIF.

When it takes me 5 minutes of unbuckling, unstrapping, and unrigging just so I can sit down and have a cup a chai with a local cop, governor, or milita head that has no more than a turban and an AK, there is a mixed signal. At the end of the day, we need to be able to step out of the way and allow the host nations step in and take security operations for themsleves. If we continue to increase the standard of technology, armor, expensive "mandatory" items just to leave the front gates, how can we ever expect the Iraqi's or Afghans to respond in kind. How can we motivate them to stand up and take the risks if we make it clear we can't patrol unless we have equipment redundancy, armored troop carriers, the Texas Air National Guard, and the USS Missouri ready to call in fire?

I won't mention the added perception of FEAR that constant increases of armor and layed protection communicate.

The new armored troop carriers may have a place on the battlefield, but from point of view that my leather troop carriers offer, it is not here and now. Take those MILLIONS of dollars and invest it in ammo for troops to train with, radios that won't burn out, or any other number of items that will allow us to close with and kill the enemy, or allows us to train the host nation forces to do the same.

I feel there is a balance that we need to consider with respect to accomplishing our mission, and providing safety for our troops. I truly believe there comes a point where we have to accept that the only REAL way to stop losing soldiers to IED's is to defeat the INSURGENT, and not the blast from their devices.

[jatx]

Originally Posted by Ret10Echo

LROD is a lightweight, modular bar-armor system composed of an aluminium alloy that provides protection against RPGs without compromising the operational capabilities of the vehicle.

This looks like a disaster waiting to happen! What happens when a vehicle is flipped or turned over by an IED, the cage is bent, and our troops are trying to crawl away from the burning wreckage? Doesn't anyone remember speed and violence of action?

[Ret10Echo]

More "stuff" on the MRAP. The last line is interesting

" as roadside bombs have grown more powerful



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/wa...DZXgdW2f16V1rQ

[x SF med]

It looks like an armored Range Rover in a chicken coop. Army Mobile Farm Unit?(AMFU) make what you will of the acronym.

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by x SF med

It looks like an armored Range Rover in a chicken coop. Army Mobile Farm Unit?(AMFU) make what you will of the acronym.

Or the Army Farm Unit, Mobile......AFU-M