Don't you feel sorry for this guy?

Jo Sul · 03-25-2005, 09:22

I just LOVE this quote - "We don't believe that people should be imprisoned for doing what they believe is illegal."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

TORONTO (AP) -- The Canadian government has denied refugee status to former U.S. Army paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman, a major blow to a handful of U.S. military deserters who have fled to Canada rather than fight in a war they claim commits atrocities against civilians.

Thursday's decision, which was formally announced on a government Web site, could affect at least eight -- and possibly dozens more -- American soldiers seeking refuge in Canada, yet help improve strained relations between Washington and Ottawa.

Canada opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. The Pentagon has urged the deserters to return to the United States and take up their concerns at their respective military bases.

The ruling, written by Immigration and Refugee Board member Brian Goodman, said Hinzman had not made a convincing argument that he would face persecution or cruel and unusual punishment if sent back to the United States.

Goodman said that while Hinzman may face some employment and social discrimination, "The treatment does not amount to a violation of a fundamental human right, and the harm is not serious."

Hinzman's attorney, Jeffry House, said his client would appeal the ruling and still believed that he would be granted refugee status in Canada.

"He is disappointed," House told CBC TV. "We don't believe that people should be imprisoned for doing what they believe is illegal."

Hinzman, 26, fled from Fort Bragg, North Carolina, in January 2004, weeks before his 82nd Airborne Division was due to be deployed to Iraq. He had served three years in the Army, but had applied for conscientious objector status before his unit was sent to Afghanistan in 2002.

Hinzman lives with his wife and toddler son in Toronto, where Quakers and the War Resisters coalition of anti-war groups have taken on his cause and provided some shelter. Coalition supporters intend to demonstrate later Thursday in front of the U.S. Consulate in Toronto.

Hinzman argued before the Immigration and Refugee Board last December that he would have been taking part in war crimes if he had been deployed with his unit. He claimed the war in Iraq was illegal and he would be persecuted if forced to return to the United States.

Hinzman could face charges of desertion if sent home and would face up to five years in prison. He and seven other U.S. military deserters are being represented by House, a Wisconsin native who came to Canada in 1970 as a draft dodger during the Vietnam War.

House believes there are as many as 100 other American war resisters hiding in Canada, waiting to see how Hinzman's case is played out before coming forward. He said the 30,000 to 50,000 Americans who fled to Canada during Vietnam and were allowed to settle here, but that Hinzman would have become the first American soldier to be granted political asylum in Canada.

During the Vietnam era, young American men could be drafted into military service, but now enlistment in U.S. military is voluntary. The military attracts many young recruits with job skills training and programs that help pay for university.

Pvt. 1st Class Joshua Key, 26, of Oklahoma City is the latest war resister to flee to Toronto, arriving two weeks ago with his wife and four children. He told the Toronto Star that he served in Iraq with the 43rd Combat Engineering Company, which was deployed in April 2003.

Key said he served eight months in Iraq before he left the military when he was on leave back at the 43rd's base in Fort Carson, Colorado in December 2003.

"I was in combat the entire time I was there," said Key. "I left for Iraq with a purpose, thinking this was another Hitler deal. But there were no weapons of mass destruction. They had no military whatsoever. And I started to wonder."

**Bill Harsey** · 03-25-2005, 09:33

From the bottom of the news article,

Wasn't that "weapons of mass destruction" thing a notch or two above
Pvt. Key's pay grade to sort out? He claims no Iraqi Army either?

Goody, a private making command level assessments.

He should be fast tracked into the Presidents Cabinet.

jbour13 · 03-25-2005, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

From the bottom of the news article,........
.......He should be fast tracked into the Presidents Cabinet.

I have a place I'd like to stick him, right in the back like he did the rest of his comrades that have to share his load in a combat zone. It's acceptable to fill the void when a brother/sister in arms takes one for the team and unable to carry on and you have to make do with the task at hand. But to out and out leave people behind.....I think he'd fit in as a staffer for Ted or John.

NousDefionsDoc · 03-25-2005, 09:42

Better that he ran away than going over there and not doing his job. He's a coward, better to find out before hand than when the chips are down. They should revoke his citizenship.

jbour13 · 03-25-2005, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Better that he ran away than going over there and not doing his job. He's a coward, better to find out before hand than when the chips are down. They should revoke his citizenship.

True that he gave in and didn't have a chance to crack under pressure. We all know how a man of religion changed SGT Audie Murphy's viewpoint. He was called a coward at times for having reservations about taking another life. I don't think this so called "soldier" had as much courage in his body as SGT Murphy had in a single hair.

I would like to see his citizenship be revoked, but who would have him?

**The Reaper** · 03-25-2005, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

From the bottom of the news article,

Wasn't that "weapons of mass destruction" thing a notch or two above
Pvt. Key's pay grade to sort out? He claims no Iraqi Army either?

Goody, a private making command level assessments.

He should be fast tracked into the Presidents Cabinet.

Nossir!

He should become Hillary's Military Affairs advisor.

Little chickensh*t bastard.

Probably a lack of parenting involved again.

TR

**Bill Harsey** · 03-25-2005, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Nossir!

He should become Hillary's Military Affairs advisor.

Little chickensh*t bastard.

Probably a lack of parenting involved again.

TR

Good thinking, they should get along just fine.

ABC News is announcing that Mr. Hinzman has been charged with Desertion.

**The Reaper** · 03-25-2005, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Good thinking, they should get along just fine.

ABC News is announcing that Mr. Hinzman has been charged with Desertion.

Do you think?

His actions are pretty much textbook. Filing for asylum has pretty much removed the issue of AWOL vs. Desertion. I'd say it is pretty cut and dried.

Recent actions have been pretty lenient, but this is a capital offense.

TR

Punitive Articles of the UCMJ

Article 85—Desertion

Text.

“(a) Any member of the armed forces who—

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;

(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another one of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States Note: This provision has been held not to state a separate offense by the United States Court of Military Appeals in United States v. Huff, 7 U.S.C.M.A. 247, 22 C.M.R. 37 (1956), is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.

(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”

Guide Note: The offense of Desertion, under Article 85, carries a much greater punishment, than the offense of AWOL, under Article 86. Many people believe that if one is absent without authority for greater than 30 days, the offense changes from AWOL to Desertion, but that's not quite true.

The primary difference between the two offenses is "intent to remain away permanently." If one intends to return to "military control," one is guilty of "AWOL," under Article 86, not Desertion, under Article 85, even if they were away for ten years. The confusion derives from the fact that, if a member is absent without authority for longer than 30 days, the government (court-martial) is allowed to assume there was no intent to return. Therefore, the burden of proof that the accused intended to someday return to "military control" lies with the defense.

A person who is absent for just a day or two, then apprehended, could still be charged with the offense of Desertion, but the prosecution would have to show evidence that the accused intended to remain away permanently.

Elements.

(1) Desertion with intent to remain away permanently.

(a) That the accused absented himself or herself from his or her unit, organization, or place of duty;

(b) That such absence was without authority;

(c) That the accused, at the time the absence began or at some time during the absence, intended to remain away from his or her unit, organization, or place of duty permanently; and

(d) That the accused remained absent until the date alleged. Note: If the absence was terminated by apprehension, add the following element

(e) That the accused’s absence was terminated by apprehension.

(2) Desertion with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service.

(a) That the accused quit his or her unit, organization, or other place of duty;

(b) That the accused did so with the intent to avoid a certain duty or shirk a certain service;

(c) That the duty to be performed was hazardous or the service important;

(d) That the accused knew that he or she would be required for such duty or service; and

(e) That the accused remained absent until the date alleged.

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 03-25-2005, 12:40

To bad that this POS couldn't be turned over to his former fellow Troopers in the 82nd Airborne for his punishment, before going to Levenworth, if there is anything left that is.

AngelsSix · 03-25-2005, 19:16

Big rocks into little rocks......he needs to learn how to make gravel the old fashioned way.

rubberneck · 03-25-2005, 19:24

(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”

Does it matter that Congress has not declared war against Iraq? By every standard we are at war but does the fact that it wasn't declared spare him the death penalty (which in today's touchy feely world would never happen any way).