Classroom Discipline

Requiem · 10-08-2015, 00:18

I need some advice. My sons (ages 14 and 15) are attending a brick and mortar school for the first time. As former home schoolers there's a lot to adjust to. Their teacher is former military, a good man who cares about his students. His form of classroom discipline is this: one messes up, everyone pays. It's not harsh, but there are no excuses allowed. (I think it's a good thing, actually.)

I've had a hard time explaining to them why their teacher has chosen to give everyone punishment when only one or two kids are goofing off. It's not fair to those who are doing the right thing (which my boys are doing). They've gone from mildly confused at this, to plainly annoyed at the kids who cause everyone to suffer.

What can the guys do? Obviously leaning on the slackers is what the teacher intends, no? Group pressure? How would you advise your own kids in this situation?

Thanks,
Susan

miclo18d · 10-08-2015, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

I need some advice. My sons (ages 14 and 15) are attending a brick and mortar school for the first time. As former home schoolers there's a lot to adjust to. Their teacher is former military, a good man who cares about his students. His form of classroom discipline is this: one messes up, everyone pays. It's not harsh, but there are no excuses allowed. (I think it's a good thing, actually.)

I've had a hard time explaining to them why their teacher has chosen to give everyone punishment when only one or two kids are goofing off. It's not fair to those who are doing the right thing (which my boys are doing). They've gone from mildly confused at this, to plainly annoyed at the kids who cause everyone to suffer.

What can the guys do? Obviously leaning on the slackers is what the teacher intends, no? Group pressure? How would you advise your own kids in this situation?

Thanks,
Susan

Blanket party for the screw ups!

Kidding aside, I've never been a fan of mass punishment. Basic, airborne, Ranger Regt. It still bothers me, gov't wants to take my guns because some psycho shoots people in a mass punishment "gun free zone". The teacher seems to think that the "good" students will peer pressure the "bad" students into good behavior. Works in the military, not so much for highschool teens, IMO.

SF was where "Big Boy Rules" applied. Grown men get in trouble and pay the price on their own. I'm a much bigger fan.

Sohei · 10-08-2015, 06:40

I do -- and always have -- hated the shotgun form of punishment. I shouldn't pay for someone else's sins.

Personal accountability = personal success. If everyone pays, the violator doesn't get anything they earned personally because everyone got what they themselves earned.

If one person earned the A grade in the class...would everyone benefit from it...I think not.

DIYPatriot · 10-08-2015, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

I need some advice. My sons (ages 14 and 15) are attending a brick and mortar school for the first time. As former home schoolers there's a lot to adjust to. Their teacher is former military, a good man who cares about his students. His form of classroom discipline is this: one messes up, everyone pays. It's not harsh, but there are no excuses allowed. (I think it's a good thing, actually.)

I've had a hard time explaining to them why their teacher has chosen to give everyone punishment when only one or two kids are goofing off. It's not fair to those who are doing the right thing (which my boys are doing). They've gone from mildly confused at this, to plainly annoyed at the kids who cause everyone to suffer.

What can the guys do? Obviously leaning on the slackers is what the teacher intends, no? Group pressure? How would you advise your own kids in this situation?

Thanks,
Susan

I had a similar situation when I was a kid. My first time in public school was 7th grade. I went from "big boy rules" to mass punishment and it was a culture shock for me. In one class, my teacher made everyone write 500 sentences because two kids would not stop talking during class. As everyone wrote, I sat still and didn't say a word. I didn't write. I just stared straight ahead. This caught the teacher's attention and she asked me why I wasn't doing what she said. I told her that if I'm going to serve any sort of punishment it will be for something I did wrong, not for something that others did.

So, I humbly and respectfully refused to do what she said. Long story short, she took me into the hallway and we had a lengthy talk about it. To my shock, the teacher apologized to me and told me that mass punishment was not something she preferred but it was something she was directed to do by the school. I asked her if she always did what she was told or if she ever stood up for her beliefs.

Many years later she became the superintendent of schools. I stayed in touch with her. She told me that day had a profound effect on her. She changed many of the policies regarding group punishment and I forever think of her. As a 12 year old kid in a new school, I was scared to death defying her but my grandfather taught me that you have to stand up for yourself and others even if you stand alone. I'm not sure what the climate is for your kids or how the administration would respond to civil disobedience, but in my situation it was positive.

Best of luck to you and your kids. I fully understand the frustration you must be feeling. Hang in there!

MtnGoat · 10-08-2015, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

I need some advice. My sons (ages 14 and 15) are attending a brick and mortar school for the first time. As former home schoolers there's a lot to adjust to. Their teacher is former military, a good man who cares about his students. His form of classroom discipline is this: one messes up, everyone pays. It's not harsh, but there are no excuses allowed. (I think it's a good thing, actually.)

I've had a hard time explaining to them why their teacher has chosen to give everyone punishment when only one or two kids are goofing off. It's not fair to those who are doing the right thing (which my boys are doing). They've gone from mildly confused at this, to plainly annoyed at the kids who cause everyone to suffer.

What can the guys do? Obviously leaning on the slackers is what the teacher intends, no? Group pressure? How would you advise your own kids in this situation?

Thanks,
Susan

What does he do for his mass punishment??

bandycpa · 10-08-2015, 08:13

I think there's a place for mass punishment though.

As a youth soccer coach, I use mass punishment to enforce simple lessons on the field (ex: on a handball during practice, everyone does pushups). On the flip side of it, if we are doing conditioning and one person steps up during an individual challenge and meets the challenge, conditioning stops. What I've found is that it builds a team bond in which they tend to take care of each other both on and off the field.

For example, on hill sprints, the ones that finish first will go back and get their teammates that are struggling...encouraging them to finish, making sure they aren't alone. If one of them does a two minute plank to get conditioning to end, his other teammates end up down there with him...encouraging him not to give up, making sure he isn't alone.

IMO, mass punishment for mass punishment's sake will hurt a team. But, used in a positive environment, I believe it can foster a team ethic.

**Team Sergeant** · 10-08-2015, 08:14

Mass punishment.

What a great way to ensure bullying continues! (I'm also not a fan of the anti-bullying campaign) Cause I'd be that kid that locates/isolates that one moron and threatens his earthly existence if he gets us all in trouble one more time. Call it what you like but the liberals call it bullying and sometimes it has the correct chilling effect. Kids believe they can get away with anything and some do and some need to know there's a line in the sand you do not cross.

I'm not one of those that believes in peer pressure, mass punishment or it takes a village. I'd rather deal with the idiot in question.

My .02

abc_123 · 10-08-2015, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandycpa

I think there's a place for mass punishment though.

As a youth soccer coach, I use mass punishment to enforce simple lessons on the field (ex: on a handball during practice, everyone does pushups). On the flip side of it, if we are doing conditioning and one person steps up during an individual challenge and meets the challenge, conditioning stops. What I've found is that it builds a team bond in which they tend to take care of each other both on and off the field.

For example, on hill sprints, the ones that finish first will go back and get their teammates that are struggling...encouraging them to finish, making sure they aren't alone. If one of them does a two minute plank to get conditioning to end, his other teammates end up down there with him...encouraging him not to give up, making sure he isn't alone.

IMO, mass punishment for mass punishment's sake will hurt a team. But, used in a positive environment, I believe it can foster a team ethic.

A classroom is not a team. Mass punishment in the classroom is dumb.

bandycpa · 10-08-2015, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc_123

A classroom is not a team. Mass punishment in the classroom is dumb.

I agree sir. Only pointing out that it does have merit in other settings.

Old Dog New Trick · 10-08-2015, 10:04

Class, Classsss, Classssssssss, SHUT UP! - Thank you. (RIP Gilda Radner)

10-08-2015, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

I need some advice. My sons (ages 14 and 15) are attending a brick and mortar school for the first time. As former home schoolers there's a lot to adjust to. Their teacher is former military, a good man who cares about his students. His form of classroom discipline is this: one messes up, everyone pays. It's not harsh, but there are no excuses allowed. (I think it's a good thing, actually.)

I've had a hard time explaining to them why their teacher has chosen to give everyone punishment when only one or two kids are goofing off. It's not fair to those who are doing the right thing (which my boys are doing). They've gone from mildly confused at this, to plainly annoyed at the kids who cause everyone to suffer.

What can the guys do? Obviously leaning on the slackers is what the teacher intends, no? Group pressure? How would you advise your own kids in this situation?

Thanks,
Susan

I'd find another school, pronto.

BTW, high schoolers having only one teacher???

**Pete** · 10-08-2015, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH

I'd find another school, pronto.

BTW, high schoolers having only one teacher???

D3 is in public high school this year and is on the 4 x 4 schedule. Instead of 8 classes all year they take 4 in the fall and 4 in the spring. Class periods are longer but they still have 4 different teachers.

Requiem · 10-09-2015, 17:55

Thanks for the feedback. Consensus seems to be negative, which is not surprising. My guys are not a fan of this mass punishment technique, either. I'd like to be able to explain the psychology behind it to them, whatever that is. After years of telling the guys not to fall prey to peer pressure and to make their own decisions, suddenly they're confronted with a system that uses their peers to make others conform. *sigh*

Quote:

Originally Posted by miclo18d

Blanket party for the screw ups!

I'll send a blanket to school with them on Monday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIYPatriot

I had a similar situation when I was a kid. My first time in public school was 7th grade. I went from "big boy rules" to mass punishment and it was a culture shock for me.

Patriot: that's a great story. Your elders raised you right. Thanks for sharing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtnGoat

What does he do for his mass punishment??

Loss of privileges mostly. Less time in the gym, less free time, etc. He also gives individuals laps or sit-ups for various reasons. I think the mass punishment happens when the screw-up causes the entire class to wait/be delayed. He also has a system of rewards for an individual's positive behavior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Kids believe they can get away with anything and some do and some need to know there's a line in the sand you do not cross.

I'm not one of those that believes in peer pressure, mass punishment or it takes a village. I'd rather deal with the idiot in question.

My .02

There doesn't seem to be many lines in the sand these days. I'm all for a moron being held accountable for his actions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH

I'd find another school, pronto.

BTW, high schoolers having only one teacher???

It's a small private school. There are two teachers for the high school grades, plus an aide. It's the homeroom teacher that's the issue here.

Thanks guys! We'll carry on, call it a learning experience in tolerating morons, and pack a blanket with us for those extra-special idiots.

Susan

10-09-2015, 20:49

She might as well talk to the wall...the solution is to find another school...one with more than two teachers for the entire HS curriculum.

mojaveman · 10-09-2015, 21:33

I think that discipline is very lacking in today's society. When I was in junior High School many years ago a kid in class was being absolutely disrespectful to a teacher. Mr. R picked the kid up out of his seat, put him against the wall and gave him a loud verbal reprimand. The student never opened his mouth again.

Wrong? I suppose that would bring a law suit in today's America.

I knew the kid and he was a jerk. The teacher was what I would consider old school and also a WW II Veteran. He was an honorable man and had my complete respect.