Financial collapse??

Max_Tab · 01-29-2014, 16:23

Are we seeing a small hiccup or is the market finally correcting itself? Is the downward spiral starting or is there a little more time?

DOW is down about 670 points in less than a week.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...rency-collapse

What are some of you smart guys opinion?

GratefulCitizen · 01-29-2014, 16:50

My best friend just started taking short positions in a certain energy sector.
Last year the average annual return on his investments was almost 400%.

Trucking tonnage would indicate that the real economy is doing well.
However, M3 (Shadowstats) is starting to drop.

Economic collapse and financial collapse aren't necessarily the same thing.
In the last "crisis", no real wealth was "destroyed"; it merely changed hands...

Lan · 01-29-2014, 16:58

I am interested to know as well. I used to read theeconomiccollapseblog.com and have talked to the author a couple times through email. He's been predicting collapse for years. I've been assured by someone who knows a lot more about finance than the author of that blog, that long term, investment in the stock market is a good idea (he's not our financial adviser, he's a family member, so he's biased towards our benefit).

I think the market is readjusting personally, and I am kicking my ass for taking our money out of the market too early. The future is uncertain, but I'd pull out now if you're close to retirement, or even investing long term because I do think we're in a bubble. Based on my limited knowledge. Investing in tangible assets is probably a good idea, in moderate amounts, but I don't predict, with minimal knowledge a collapse is imminent based on advice from a family member.

I see a lot of negative things about the way our monetary system works, but so long as we can control the world's trade in oil, using the petrodollar, we don't have a lot to worry about. I have read that China and Russia have been talking to the Middle East about trading in their own currency, not sure if that's true or not. That would have a huge impact on everything here in the U.S.

Max_Tab · 01-29-2014, 17:02

But how much real wealth is there or is it mostly 0s and 1s? The whole derivatives market (I'm by no means an expert, I am just muddling through basic understanding) and the fact that Germany wants is gold back, plus all the turmoil in the developing markets, riots in the Ukraine, Greece and Spain deflation in multiple countries, a run on the bank in Russia and China having is own issues (who by the way own the majority of our debt and our current leaderships lack of experience doesn't give me much confidence.

Max_Tab · 01-29-2014, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lan

I am interested to know as well. I used to read theeconomiccollapseblog.com and have talked to the author a couple times through email. He's been predicting collapse for years. I've been assured by someone who knows a lot more about finance than the author of that blog, that long term, investment in the stock market is a good idea (he's not our financial adviser, he's a family member, so he's biased towards our benefit).

I think the market is readjusting personally, and I am kicking my ass for taking our money out of the market too early. The future is uncertain, but I'd pull out now if you're close to retirement, or even investing long term because I do think we're in a bubble. Based on my limited knowledge. Investing in tangible assets is probably a good idea, in moderate amounts, but I don't predict, with minimal knowledge a collapse is imminent based on advice from a family member.

I see a lot of negative things about the way our monetary system works, but so long as we can control the world's trade in oil, using the petrodollar, we don't have a lot to worry about. I have read that China and Russia have been talking to the Middle East about trading in their own currency, not sure if that's true or not. That would have a huge impact on everything here in the U.S.

China and multiple countries are wanting to start using the yen to buy and trade oil which would take the US out of the middle. I don't know if it has happened yet but i think its coming.

Lan · 01-29-2014, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_Tab

China and multiple countries are wanting to start using the yen to buy and trade oil which would take the US out of the middle. I don't know if it has happened yet but i think its coming.

It could be coming but I don't think it is. If it happens I better have a stockpile of ammo and bullion.

Max_Tab · 01-29-2014, 17:18

http://m.financialsense.com/contribu...ise-petro-yuan

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...31121?irpc=932

Ammo up

Lan · 01-29-2014, 17:26

The U.S. is the world's largest supplier of oil and will be for many years according to Reuters.

I'm not trying to prove anything FWIW, but I think a lot of people (including myself) are/were scared about the future of our monetary system. I am just trying to be helpful by showing it's not all bad.

Max_Tab · 01-29-2014, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lan

The U.S. is the world's largest supplier of oil and will be for many years according to Reuters.

I'm not trying to prove anything FWIW, but I think a lot of people (including myself) are/were scared about the future of our monetary system. I am just trying to be helpful by showing it's not all bad.

Our oil industry is the only thing that has a chance of saving us, but going back to our current leaderships rules, regulations, and downright hatred for the oil industry won't allow them to to take full advantage of our resources and technology. Look at ND and TX to see the possibilities. But all of their advances have only been on private property, no government land.

Stiletto11 · 01-29-2014, 18:29

The real danger is when the dollar is replaced as the reserve currency of the world. When Nixon took us officially off the gold standard we made a deal with the Saudis that we would protect the oil fields if they every country buying oil from them had to convert their currency to US Dollars The result is Petro Dollars and since the Federal Reserve Note "Dollar" is not backed by anything except full faith and credit of the US, it stands to collapse if another currency takes its place as reserve currency of the world. A dollar by law is one once of pure silver and it's still on the books (United States Code). A Federal Reserve Note denominated in a dollar is not a dollar. It is a debt equity instrument.

Wall Street was the direct benefit of QE so I would be careful calling this a normal correction (Usually 10%). I spent 15 years on Wall Street and have seen corrections for many reasons. Zero interest rates have forced people into the market chasing dividends that may not have the risk tolerance required. I saw this in the 90's when the rates dropped and banks started selling mutual funds. In the correction of 2000 they got slaughtered and some lost as much as 50% or more of their retirement savings. The Fed is an enemy of the Republic and that is why Jefferson and Jackson were so opposed to central banks.

Max_Tab · 01-29-2014, 18:47

So if you don't think this is a normal correction, what do you think it is, especially with every thing happening in the world.

Dusty · 01-29-2014, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_Tab

So if you don't think this is a normal correction

It is.

Unless somebody told them the Fed was going to quit printing money.

Max_Tab · 01-29-2014, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty

It is.

Unless somebody told them the Fed was going to quit printing money.

Isn't the fed starting to ease up on printing money, which is one reason the market has g one down this week?

Stiletto11 · 01-29-2014, 19:05

It's complicated because there are many things going on. China is buying the piss out of gold and some countries like Germany are requiring that their gold be returned to them from the Federal Reserve in NY. If China stops buying our debt and makes a run (they are setting up for it) to be the reserve currency, the US is in a world of hurt. Like I said in another post; if you can't see it or touch it the money ain't yours. It can disappear overnight as it was the case in Cypress. Will it happen here? Who knows, but one must be prepared in any case especially with what is going on in the global economy. Another factor to look at is the Baby Boomers are getting ready to retire and will be pulling a shitload of money out of the market.

The best advice is to watch your portfolio and limit your risk by diversification. I like gold and silver in its physical form (Silver and Gold Eagles and bullion). Some will say that you run the risk of the government calling it in like it did in 1933. The difference between now and then was the currency in 1933 was backed by gold so they called it in to pay for the bankruptcy (IMF as the administrator: read Bretton Woods Act).

PM me if you have any questions ,more than happy to help.

spherojon · 01-29-2014, 19:29

Gold is trending at $1264.4 US Dollar an ounce. If this was a crisis, it would be a lot higher.

Quote:

Economic collapse and financial collapse aren't necessarily the same thing.
In the last "crisis", no real wealth was "destroyed"; it merely changed hands...

Nail on the head for this current stock situation. Some might call it a "transfer of wealth." We are in no way going back to the gold standard, but in the snowballs chance we are, the foreign exchange reserves would be the first thing our government would confiscate...from other countries...well that's what I would do.