03-14-2014, 11:04
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#1
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 71
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Ares Armor files TRO against BATFE
http://aresarmor.com/store/NewsArtic..._Against_BATFE
Long story short, the BATFE raided a separate shop that makes 80% polymer lowers because of some incorrect information that determined them to be considered "firearms". Ares makes 80% poly lowers and was also threatened with a raid. BATFE wanted Ares to turn over list of customers who purchased the poly lowers and Ares told the feds to take a walk and Ares filed a temporary restraining order against the BATFE.
I've been a fan/patron of Ares, but these actions have secured me as a lifetime customer.
Might also add that they had a big old billboard that has an AR-15 that says "No serial number. No registration. Legal" underneath it, in National City, CA.
Probably not related but who knows these days.
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steel_eel is offline
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03-16-2014, 08:47
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#2
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
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Ares Armor raided by BATFE
It appears ATF went to the judge that had issued the temporary restraining order and received a clarification of the TRO which gave ATF a green light to raid Ares Armor, which they did on the 14th. I'm assuming they grabbed the entire client list in that raid which they will copy and keep no matter the outcome of this case.
More here
http://weaselzippers.us/179529-break...er-from-judge/
And here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/212508154/...TRO-Ares-Armor
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hammerstamp is offline
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03-16-2014, 09:14
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_eel
I've been a fan/patron of Ares, but these actions have secured me as a lifetime customer.
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I think you are now on the ATF fan list as a lifetime customer..
__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh
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JJ_BPK is offline
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03-16-2014, 09:27
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
I think you are now on the ATF fan list as a lifetime customer..
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The NSA already knew that.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-16-2014, 10:09
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#5
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Driving the Texas highways
Posts: 672
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Good thread going at calguns.net with suggestions on how customers who bought the '80%' products should respond.
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orion5 is offline
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03-16-2014, 20:34
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#6
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Black Hills of SD
Posts: 5,944
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__________________
Non Sibi Sed Suis
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It's Good To Be Da King !!!! Just ask NDD !!!! 
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Sdiver is offline
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03-16-2014, 21:04
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 298
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Happened to be in the area so stopped in the store today. I didn't buy one but in the 15 minutes I was there 2 went out the door. Apparently the first customer was an LEO 
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DDD is offline
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03-17-2014, 13:47
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#8
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 39
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futureSOF is offline
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03-18-2014, 12:24
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#9
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,200
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On her radio show yesterday, Dana Loesch pointed out the the Feds see that a potential gun part is a rifle, but a fetus is not a baby.
Pat
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
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PSM is offline
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03-18-2014, 12:33
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#10
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,086
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From some references, I am reading that Ares did not get their own LoD choosing to rely on the similarity to other products that did go through the determination process.
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Daniel
GM1 USNR (RET)
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Streck-Fu is offline
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03-18-2014, 12:45
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,086
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Quote:
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Lets face it. The reason people are buying 80% complete lowers is so they can skirt around the law then make a complete lower themselves without serial# etc. As far as I know that is illegal.
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While some are very well doing that, an individual may also file a Form 1 declaring that they have made a firearm which is not illegal.
I am going to edit to add that the ATF states that an individual may make a firearm for personal use:
Quote:
9. May I lawfully make a firearm for my own personal use, provided it is not being made for resale?
Firearms may be lawfully made by persons who do not hold a manufacturer’s license under the GCA provided they are not for sale or distribution and the maker is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts, as set forth in regulations in 27 C.F.R. 478.39. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and advance approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for the official use of a Federal, State, or local government agency (18 U.S.C.§ 922(o),(r); 26 U.S.C. § 5822; 27 C.F.R. §§ 478.39, 479.62, and 479.105).
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__________________
Daniel
GM1 USNR (RET)
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Last edited by Streck-Fu; 03-18-2014 at 13:21.
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Streck-Fu is offline
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03-18-2014, 12:51
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#12
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
Why not just buy a lower? It is legal and no gray area crap to get around and yes you can buy a stripped lower in California.
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People in California are buying 80%er's because they cannot buy a new stripped lower without a bullet button. Ain't nobody got time for a bullet button!
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Lan is offline
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03-18-2014, 13:12
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
Lets face it. The reason people are buying 80% complete lowers is so they can skirt around the law then make a complete lower themselves without serial# etc. As far as I know that is illegal. While I am a big 2nd amendment supporter and believe class II and III should not be restricted etc etc the reality is most of the people buying the lowers are going to make them into a lower illegally. Why not just buy a lower? It is legal and no gray area crap to get around and yes you can buy a stripped lower in California.
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Not true.
Completing an 80% receiver yourself for your own use is completely legal, as is building an otherwise compliant weapon from scratch.
Kali is raiding people's home and confiscating weapons already. I am not sure I would want to buy a lower there under those conditions, even if I legally could.
My understanding is that they were selling quite a few 80% receivers to a vendor who was performing some of the machining operations for the customers, which IS illegal.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-18-2014, 13:35
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sneaking back and forth across the Border
Posts: 6,679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Not true.
Completing an 80% receiver yourself for your own use is completely legal, as is building an otherwise compliant weapon from scratch.
Kali is raiding people's home and confiscating weapons already. I am not sure I would want to buy a lower there under those conditions, even if I legally could.
My understanding is that they were selling quite a few 80% receivers to a vendor who was performing some of the machining operations for the customers, which IS illegal.
TR
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TR
You are correct.
I just had lunch with the RAC of ATF here today (Good Guy) and we were discussing this situation. The problem was how some people were handling the 80%'s they were selling. ATF has no problem with you buying a chunk of metal at 80% they just have a problem with the same company helping or just doing the final 20% for you. I as many are not big fans of ATF's job but I understand their responsibility and mandate. At times it boils down to the Agents and supervisors mind set and some do go more energetic after things when they did not need to. Running a finish machine shop in the back room or at another site is over the line and they hit them.
Just my 2cents
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SF_BHT is offline
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03-18-2014, 18:45
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 4,073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
Ahh that I did not know. Do you need to put on a serial number as well or not since it is home made?
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You do not have to place a S/N on it. Some advise that you should, especially if you have more than one of the same type.
I'm intending to place the build date followed by a P (Pistol), a C (Carbine), and R (Rifle) as a S/N for my builds. And store the pistol well away from the Carbine and Rifle. Mix up the pistol upper with a stocked lower and you have an unauthorized/untaxed SBR = Felony!
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