New Orleans Saints "bounty" scandal

cjwils3 · 03-06-2012, 14:41

What do others think about the Saints "bounty" scandal and the looming punishments for the coaches, players, and other team personnel that were involved (or kept silent about it)? In my opinion, Gregg Williams should be banned for life because his conduct in engineering these bounty rackets has spanned over a decade. He has obviously shown a complete unwillingness to follow NFL rules and concern for player safety. Sean Payton, despite not being a direct participant, should probably be fired because his knowledge of and refusal to report it makes him just as culpable as Williams. The 22-27 players involved (according to reports) should probably receive hefty fines and possible suspensions.

Granted, New Orleans is certainly not the first team to institute something like this, but Roger Goodell should nonetheless go down on them hard so as to deter any future misconduct of this nature.

akv · 03-06-2012, 15:07

My$.02 the Saints need the head coach and assistant fined and suspended for 2-6 games, and most importantly take away the Saints first round draft pick.

If Bill Belichik is fined six figures and the Pats lost a first round draft pick for spygate, and the NFL is fining defensive players 50-60K for helmet hits, what is a proportional penalty for an NFL coach putting bounties on opposing players? This isn't filming opposing practice this is paying people to hurt people beyond the normal physical nature of the sport.

The cynic in me believes the NFL crackdown on concussions is less about player safety than CYA from potential future litigation, I think an NFL coach ordering thuggery is high profile liability for the league and will be severely dealt with. In an already litigious society, what is to stop any player injured against the Saints the past season to sue the league for civil damages given this development?

Yet another reason professional sports holds less appeal too me.

LSUinNL · 03-06-2012, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by akv

My$.02 the Saints need the head coach and assistant fined and suspended for 2-6 games, and most importantly take away the Saints first round draft pick.

If Bill Belichik is fined six figures and the Pats lost a first round draft pick for spygate, and the NFL is fining defensive players 50-60K for helmet hits, what is a proportional penalty for an NFL coach putting bounties on opposing players? This isn't filming opposing practice this is paying people to hurt people beyond the normal physical nature of the sport.

The cynic in me believes the NFL crackdown on concussions is less about player safety than CYA from potential future litigation, I think an NFL coach ordering thuggery is high profile liability for the league and will be severely dealt with. In an already litigious society, what is to stop any player injured against the Saints the past season to sue the league for civil damages given this development?

Yet another reason professional sports holds less appeal too me.

I'm not sure I believe the media reports at this time. I think it was probably a "big play" type pool. You know, for doing the stuff that would get you helmet stickers in high school.

Also you seem to advocate punishing the Saints hard while not even mentioning the ring leader who has been doing this at multiple organizations.

Maybe your right and it was a bounty program...then I agree

JoelBlack · 03-06-2012, 16:44

team has bounties. Though it may not be to hurt someone, but rather pick-6, punt return, etc. Is that wrong? By the way , the NFL will bring the hammer on this

.

Sigaba · 03-06-2012, 17:23

MOO, if the facts as reported are accurate,

Williams should be banned from coaching American football anywhere for life.
Coach Payton should be fined--if not suspended--for each and every player/game lost due to injuries inflicted by the bounty. If the league really wants to make a point, the suspension could be enforced during consecutive off seasons rather than during league play. (To me, the last season demonstrated the importance of off season OTAs.)
Players who participated in the bounty system should be fined/suspended IF it can be established that their conduct violated their contractual and professional obligations as members of the NFL. The punishments could be mitigated by acts of community service that re-enforce the values of sporting conduct in American civilization.
The Saints should lose draft picks.
The Saints should lose appearances in nationally televised games.
The Saints should not be forced to vacate victories.
The league should push back against public and political pressure for LEOs to press charges.
The league should institute a top to bottom program that emphasizes the importance of sportsmanship to the game and to American civilization in general.
- This program should augment ongoing efforts to reduce taunting at all levels of competition.
- This program should include a stricter enforcement of all rules centering around sporting conduct.
  - For example, excessive bitching after a call or a non call should be a fifteen yard penalty;
  - Intentional contact with a referee should be an automatic ejection.
- This program should also include measures that set a standard for the conduct of fans attending games. Just because you purchase a ticket doesn't give you the right to act like a flaming asshat.

Drew Brees should be sent to the Dallas Cowboys.

@akv IMO, the NFL's growing focus on player safety reflects an overdue but good faith effort to protect the athletes who make the league money. That is, the league understands the toll the sport takes on players' lives and wants to mitigate those impacts. While risk management probably does come into play, I would like to think it is also an example of good corporate governance.

ECUPirate09 · 03-06-2012, 18:24

Quote:

I'm not sure I believe the media reports at this time. I think it was probably a "big play" type pool. You know, for doing the stuff that would get you helmet stickers in high school.

Jonathan Vilma offered 10K to knock Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship game. Also, microphones picked up a Saint player saying "pay me the money" after Favre got hurt.

Quote:

The cynic in me believes the NFL crackdown on concussions is less about player safety than CYA from potential future litigation, I think an NFL coach ordering thuggery is high profile liability for the league and will be severely dealt with. In an already litigious society, what is to stop any player injured against the Saints the past season to sue the league for civil damages given this development?

It is much more about litigation, than any real concern of player safety. I would guess that many athletes, both current and former, if told the potential repercussions of their employment, would have still signed on to being an NFL player.

The NFL is moving towards an 18-game schedule. With all the recent studies of concussions, the league cannot move towards this schedule without taking a strong, public stance on player safety. The players would never survive that type of punishment for an added 2 weeks.

This shift could also be a reason for the new rules and punishments for "illegal" hits. Back a few years ago, they used to sell videos of the biggest hits; now, you can't find them on NFL.com or any official site, only youtube.

Quote:

By the way , the NFL will bring the hammer on this

I agree.

greenberetTFS · 03-06-2012, 18:38

I'm ready for all the sh*t there going to be dumping on my Saints........ But,right or wrong they are still my SAINTS.........We went thru Katrina with them and by God we will go thru this with them.......

Big Teddy

**Roguish Lawyer** · 03-06-2012, 19:05

I am opposed to the ongoing pussification of America, including any and all whining about this stuff. It's freaking football!

Sacamuelas · 03-06-2012, 19:15

LOL

I'm with RL. This is making a mountain out of a mole hill. In reality.... EVERY player on every NFL defense is trying their best to destroy the opposing player. Injury or affected play from fear from a legal hit is a bonus for the defensive player's team. It was juvenile to have a bonus system, but does anyone really believe that the bonus system is what caused an injury to an opposing player?

Get real. Sanction them in some sort of fashion to help the "look" and "perception" of the game... fine.

In the end... I still say WHO DAT!

BTW- I support the steelers linebacker and every other hard hitter in the NFL. As long as the play was legal.... let the chips fall.

**Peregrino** · 03-06-2012, 19:20

Bread and Circus. So the gladiators are playing rough. What did you really expect. Anybody who can convincingly feign shock and outrage should probably seek employment in Hollywood or politics. (I'm sorry, that was needlessly redundant.)

greenberetTFS · 03-06-2012, 19:26

I like football,I played it in high school,but now I know why I LOVE hockey,pussies don't even try to play in this game or when they do try it's always a short game.........

Big Teddy

Horned Frog · 03-06-2012, 19:53

I agree with sacamuelas and RL as well. I played rugby in college and it doesn't matter what the situation is during the game, your job is to win as long as time is rolling. If the other team is hurting or if they're scared of being hurt, it's just that much easier. Sportsmanship comes into it when you can hang out after the game and buy a beer for the guy whose nose you broke earlier in the day. Safety is important, but you don't play a "mean" sport and get surprised when folks get hurt. in my opinion, all of the stupid whining when players don't agree with calls, showboating, spiking the ball, "easy downs", etc. is less sportsmanlike than playing to win.

PedOncoDoc · 03-07-2012, 04:57

I'm heading down to NO today - this should make for some interesting dinner conversation.

Do you think the pads have lead to more or less injuries? They certainly wouldn't be hitting each other the way they do now if hey might hurt themselves in the effort. The only thing out there for the players to hurt themselves on is eachother.

Sigaba · 03-07-2012, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

I'm heading down to NO today - this should make for some interesting dinner conversation.

Do you think the pads have lead to more or less injuries? They certainly wouldn't be hitting each other the way they do now if hey might hurt themselves in the effort. The only thing out there for the players to hurt themselves on is eachother.

Doc--

FWIW, it has been my observation that NFL players are wearing fewer and fewer pads below the waist. Also, there have been a number of reports that many players no longer wear cups.

IIRC, the guys over on Fox Sports offered an observation last season that they've never seen NFL players compete as hard as they do today. Given the fact that Howie Long and Jimmy Johnson vigorously agreed with this point, I'm inclined to think that even if players wore neither pads nor helmets, they'd still go at it with all they had.

Horned Frog · 03-07-2012, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

I'm heading down to NO today - this should make for some interesting dinner conversation.

Do you think the pads have lead to more or less injuries? They certainly wouldn't be hitting each other the way they do now if hey might hurt themselves in the effort. The only thing out there for the players to hurt themselves on is eachother.

Pedoncodoc,
It's my understanding that in the early 1900s football as we know it began to diverge from rugby, most noticeably at first with the allowance of the forward pass. Other rules followed until the game exists as it does today.
When the forward pass was instituted (in colleges of course; no pro ball at the time), hits started getting bigger and injuries started getting worse. I seem to remember reading that some players died, but I don't remember the source so I hav no data there. The first pads derived from the scrumcap, it was made thicker, more rigid and more padded which of course is now a helmet. In my experience with playing both sports for a few years, rugby players get hurt a lot more. However, I've only seen one really serious injury during rugby, a severe concussion when a player was driven into a goal post. In football I've seen broken femurs, concussions, torn up knees, bad juju. So I think football has more serious injuries when they do occur.
Rugby hurts more though, so why would you bother playing football?