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Old 08-19-2008, 15:10   #1
Richard
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Don't ask, don't tell...revisited

Here's a sampling of what those on AD may have to begin dealing with if the latest on-going review of Don't ask, Don't Tell comes forth with a recommendation to allow open accomodation of such a lifestyle as the Dutch military does.

Richard

Fat Lesbians on Crack
Mike S. Adams
Tuesday, August 19, 2008

http://townhall.com/Columnists/MikeS...&comments=true

So this lesbian goes walking into a counselor’s office to get help with her same-sexed relationship. Actually, it sounds like the start of a really bad joke but it isn’t. The counselor’s name is Marcia Walden. In addition to being a counselor she is a devout Christian who believes it is immoral to engage in same-sex relationships. So she faced a tough decision when Jane, her prospective client, sought help resolving problems in her lesbian relationship.

Rather than misleading her, Marcia decided to tell Jane about her religious conflict, indicating that it would be unfair for her (Jane) if she were to serve as her counselor. But she remained helpful and offered to refer Jane to another counselor named Ken Cook.

Jane met with Mr. Cook just ten minutes later and even acknowledged that her counseling experience was “exemplary.” Mr. Cook told Marcia she had done the “right thing” by making the referral. For awhile everyone seemed happy, if not gay.

But later in the day Jane was feeling angry. So she called Ms. Walden’s supervisor Mr. Hughes and complained that she refused to counsel her due to “homophobia.” Hughes contacted Ms. Walden to tell her of the complaint about which he was “very concerned.”

Later, Ms. Walden was subjected to an interrogation about her religious beliefs. There were several supervisors there including Mr. Hughes who told her that if she ever found herself in a similar situation she should simply make up an excuse (read: lie) instead of telling the truth about her religious beliefs. Of course, Ms. Walden also stated that lying was against her religious beliefs.

After Mr. Hughes was unable to convince Ms. Walden to lie to prospective clients an employee relations specialist named Jacqueline Byrum implied that Walden should not discuss her religious objections to homosexuality. Instead, she should just tell the prospective homosexual client that she was not experienced with relationship counseling. Walden again reiterated her religious objections to intentionally misleading prospective clients.

On August 30, 2007, Christie Zerbe, a Center for Disease Control employee, sent an email demanding Ms. Walden’s removal solely because she referred Jane to another counselor. Without the benefit of any effort to accommodate her religious beliefs and practices, Walden’s employment was terminated.

Ms. Walden really wasn’t asking for much in this particular case – indeed, it isn’t like she wanted her employer to build a foot-washing basin to help her prepare for a daily prayer ritual. And Jane the lesbian had to wait no more than ten minutes to get “exemplary” counseling from someone more capable of catering to her needs.

What this case – taken by the Alliance Defense Fund - all boils down to is the unreasonable accommodation of gay activists who simply cannot tolerate the existence of anyone, anywhere who does not accept the gay lifestyle. And to the extent that we accommodate them, we are helping to create a very “uncivil” rights movement. And it is a trend with dangerous implications.

Imagine for a moment that we were to forbid a counselor from expressing her objection to overeating, despite proven health risks, simply because the obese individual likes to eat and claims some genetic predisposition to obesity.

Or imagine for a moment that we were to forbid a counselor from expressing her objection to over-drinking, despite proven health risks, simply because the drunken individual likes to drink and claims some genetic predisposition to alcoholism. (Or, worse, imagine she likes crack!).

But you don’t have to imagine forbidding a counselor from expressing her objection to homosexuality, despite proven health risks, simply because the gay individual likes homosexuality and claims some genetic predisposition to gayness.

That’s where we have arrived because, in America, there is no idea that is too dumb to be taken seriously. And when the gay rights agenda is at stake the entitlement sought is more than just tolerance. It is unconditional love and outright approval.

I’m not claiming that the gay rights movement has taken over the country. But, clearly, when it comes to gays, the patients are the ones who are running the therapists. And, before long, the inmates really will be running the asylum.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:52   #2
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Don't ask,Don't tell.....

Well put Richard......

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Old 06-08-2009, 11:45   #3
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Court rejects challenge to 'don't ask, don't tell'
June 8, 2009 - 1:07pm

By LARA JAKES
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court on Monday agreed with the Obama administration and refused to review Pentagon policy barring gays and lesbians from serving openly in the military.

The court said it will not hear an appeal from former Army Capt. James Pietrangelo II, who was dismissed under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

The federal appeals court in Boston earlier threw out a lawsuit filed by Pietrangelo and 11 other veterans. He was the only member of that group who asked the high court to rule that the Clinton-era policy is unconstitutional.

"I think this decision is an absolute travesty of justice and I think every judge on this court should be ashamed of themselves," said Pietrangelo, who served six years in the Army, seven years in the Vermont National Guard and fought in Iraq in 1991. "It's nothing short of rubber stamping legalized discrimination, the same way Nazi Germany legalized discrimination against Jews.

"The Supreme Court is not infallible, they get things wrong, and they got it wrong this time," he said.

During last year's campaign, President Barack Obama indicated he supported the eventual repeal of the policy, but he has made no specific move to do so since taking office in January. Meanwhile, the White House has said it won't stop gays and lesbians from being dismissed from the military.

In court papers, the administration said the appeals court ruled correctly in this case when it found that "don't ask, don't tell" is "rationally related to the government's legitimate interest in military discipline and cohesion."

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman referred requests for comment to the Justice Department, but said the military policy "implements the law."

"The law requires the (Defense) Department to separate from the armed services members who engage in or attempt to engage in homosexual acts; state they are homosexual or bisexual; or marry or attempt to marry a person of the same biological sex," Whitman said in a statement.

A legal advocacy group vowed to press ahead with efforts to reverse the policy despite the legal setback.

"We don't see that at all as bad news for repeal," said Kevin Nix, spokesman for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. "What happened today puts the ball back into the court of Congress and the White House to repeal the law, and that's where we think it should be right now."

Nix said there are no objective studies showing unit cohesion, morale and order are harmed by openly gay people.

"There are people out there and still serving, and the unit is not crumbling beneath their feet," he said, adding that attitudes among troops and society are far different than they were in the 1990s when the policy was instituted.

"Times have changed ... fast forward 16 years," Nix said. "The service members in Iraq and Afghanistan _ their attitudes toward gay people are very different than some retired generals in their 50s and 60s who served in the 20th Century. It's a different world."

Opposition to gay marriages, for example, has eased nationwide and six states have legalized same-sex unions. New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, Vermont and Iowa allow gay marriage, though opponents hope to overturn Maine's law with a public vote.

Polls show younger Americans are far are more tolerant of gay marriage than are older generations.

Pietrangelo, who was in the Vermont National Guard at the time of his discharge in 2004, said politicization of the issue is the only option left.

"We need political agitation, we need to make it a civil rights issue," he said. "Gay America needs to wake up and realize we have no options other than to march on Washington D.C. until America feels enough shame to change something.

"What it's going to take is 30 million gay Americans getting off their butts and standing in front of the White House demanding gay quality," said Pietrangelo, who has since moved back to his native Ohio.

The "don't ask, don't tell" policy was established in 1993. President Bill Clinton had to abandon efforts to allow gays to serve openly in the armed forces after facing strong resistance from the military and members of Congress.

Last year, the federal appeals court in San Francisco allowed a decorated flight nurse to continue her lawsuit over her dismissal. The court stopped short of declaring the policy unconstitutional, but said that the Air Force must prove that ousting former Maj. Margaret Witt furthered the military's goals of troop readiness and unit cohesion.

The decision by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals was the first that evaluated "don't ask, don't tell" through the lens of a 2003 Supreme Court decision that struck down a Texas ban on sodomy as an unconstitutional intrusion on privacy.

The administration did not appeal that ruling to the Supreme Court and Witt's lawsuit is ongoing.

The appeals court in Pietrangelo's case also took the high court decision into account, but concluded that it should defer to Congress' determination that the policy fosters cohesion in military units.

The case is Pietrangelo v. Gates, 08-824.





Rest of the article:

http://wtop.com/?nid=343&sid=1691692
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:41   #4
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During last year's campaign, President Barack Obama indicated he supported the eventual repeal of the policy, but he has made no specific move to do so since taking office in January. Meanwhile, the White House has said it won't stop gays and lesbians from being dismissed from the military.
Hinting at or saying something to get elected is one thing - actually having to decide whether or not to deal with it - and when - once you're in office is another. With all that's on the POTUS's plate - combined with California's recent vote to overturn Proposition 8 and the California Supreme Court's upholding of the voters decision - this is not an issue the White House wants to spend its energy and political capital on right now.

However - like Gitmo - the issue - and whether or not the white House wants to deal with it - may hinge more on just how long they can hold off the increasingly impatient and fervent demands of the more radical elements of their constituency than on whether its a reasonably worthwhile or attainable goal.

Richard's $.02
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“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:54   #5
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Originally Posted by Ret10Echo View Post
"I think this decision is an absolute travesty of justice and I think every judge on this court should be ashamed of themselves," said Pietrangelo, who served six years in the Army, seven years in the Vermont National Guard and fought in Iraq in 1991. "It's nothing short of rubber stamping legalized discrimination, the same way Nazi Germany legalized discrimination against Jews.
I am mystified when people degrade the courts because they disagree with a decision or when they compare their plight to the victims of the Holocaust.

MOO, by doing both, Mr. Pietrangelo cheapened himself and his beliefs. YMMV.
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Old 06-08-2009, 13:06   #6
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I am mystified when people degrade the courts because they disagree with a decision or when they compare their plight to the victims of the Holocaust.

MOO, by doing both, Mr. Pietrangelo cheapened himself and his beliefs. YMMV.
Emotion trumping reason.

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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Old 06-08-2009, 15:18   #7
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Doesn't he know that the Nazis also legalized discrimination against homosexuals? How come he used Jews?
Oh. Never mind.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:36   #8
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I am mystified when people degrade the courts because they disagree with a decision or when they compare their plight to the victims of the Holocaust. MOO, by doing both, Mr. Pietrangelo cheapened himself and his beliefs. YMMV.
Here here. I second that. Why must everything be compared to the Holocaust? Especially when the comparisons do not exist. The Military is not rounding up gays and concentrating them (actually, we'd prefer they stay a little apart), no one is making them wear stars (in fact, we just expect them to wear the uniform like everyone else. Maybe some DO wear stars.), no one is working them to death (but they are being given jobs -- good ones that until we train them they couldn't do).
Don't ask, don't tell works. Most of us "don't ask because we don't care. What we care about is if/how they do the job. Those that want to tell define themselves by there genital preference.

Just once I'd like to see someone complain about being a treated like a contemporary unter-menchen.
"I think this decision is an absolute travesty of justice and I think every umpire in this National League should be ashamed of themselves," said Pietrangelo, who served six years as a Utility fielder on the Chicago Cubs, seven years with the Tennessee Smokies (AA), and fought his way out of the Peoria Chiefs (A) in 1991. "It's nothing short of rubber stamping legalized discrimination, the same way the St Louis Cardinals legalized discrimination by laughing at us last year when we looked like the Cubs might go to the World Series.
“Don’t Point Don’t Laugh” probably caused us to blow the Pennant race. (Again)

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Old 06-26-2009, 11:58   #9
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Originally Posted by Dozer523 View Post
Here here. I second that. Why must everything be compared to the Holocaust? Especially when the comparisons do not exist. The Military is not rounding up gays and concentrating them (actually, we'd prefer they stay a little apart), no one is making them wear stars (in fact, we just expect them to wear the uniform like everyone else. Maybe some DO wear stars.), no one is working them to death (but they are being given jobs -- good ones that until we train them they couldn't do).
Don't ask, don't tell works. Most of us "don't ask because we don't care. What we care about is if/how they do the job. Those that want to tell define themselves by there genital preference.

Just once I'd like to see someone complain about being a treated like a contemporary unter-menchen.
"I think this decision is an absolute travesty of justice and I think every umpire in this National League should be ashamed of themselves," said Pietrangelo, who served six years as a Utility fielder on the Chicago Cubs, seven years with the Tennessee Smokies (AA), and fought his way out of the Peoria Chiefs (A) in 1991. "It's nothing short of rubber stamping legalized discrimination, the same way the St Louis Cardinals legalized discrimination by laughing at us last year when we looked like the Cubs might go to the World Series.
“Don’t Point Don’t Laugh” probably caused us to blow the Pennant race. (Again)

D,

Go Cubbies..........

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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver

SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney

SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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