01-25-2010, 02:59
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#1
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bad Tölz, Germany + San Antonio, TX.
Posts: 307
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WTB inexpensive scope
Gentlemen,
I've searched the forum already for infomation about rifle scopes. I did find a few things, although that didn't answer my questions.
I've read about $2000+ rifle scopes, but unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough for that.
I own a H&K SL8 (G36 conversion) with the civillian barrel. So far I have used a NC Star 3-12x50 scope, MIL Dot with illuminated reticle. Somehow, after 4 or 5 years of regular (weekly) use (maybe 10.000 rounds), the reticle became lose after the rifle tipped over to the side (not a big drop, it just fell over). The sight was off 7 centimeters to the left at 100 meters. I zeroed it back in and so far it's accurate.
I don't trust that scope anymore. I really liked the magnification and the MIL dot reticle + illumination, also the price on it was very good back then (under $300).
Do you have any suggestion for an "inexpensive", yet sturdy scope ? I know that a Schmid and Bender, or a Leupold, will do the job probably better, unfortunately they are about a month salary. I would consider a used one as well.
I shoot ~150-200 rounds per month, most of the time on a 100m, sometimes on a 300m military range.
Thanks in advance for your input.
v/r
Mike
__________________
- si vis pacem, para bellum -
Last edited by mike-munich; 01-25-2010 at 03:14.
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mike-munich is offline
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01-25-2010, 07:31
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashville
Posts: 956
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Here's a couple...
Mike, I shoot a lot of scope time with three different (4) scopes. Listed inexpensive to expensive (For Me).
1. least expensive-----> TASCO World Class, 3 x 9,x 40 with Mil Dot, Had without problems on a rifle for 12 years.
2 Next (About 200 buck) BSA 3x16 x 42, lighted retical, mildot, 6 years on a 30-06 no problems.
3. Leatherwood M-600 ART on an 8mm Mauser 4 years no problems. 3x9 x 40 (about 300).
4. Leatherwood M-1200 on a 308 Semi 3x 24 x 50>3 years.
This one is too big for the rifle and I'm thinking of Going to the M-1000.
M-1200 Costs 550.00 Near my upper limit.
The Leatherwoods are Automatic Ranging Telescopes and will put Cross hairs on target out to the end of their ranging capabilities.
__________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
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Blitzzz (RIP) is offline
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01-25-2010, 08:31
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#3
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bad Tölz, Germany + San Antonio, TX.
Posts: 307
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Quote:
4. Leatherwood M-1200 on a 308 Semi 3x 24 x 50>3 years.
This one is too big for the rifle and I'm thinking of Going to the M-1000.
M-1200 Costs 550.00 Near my upper limit.
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Blitzzz,
thank you for the information. I've looked, seems like NC Star bought TASCO. I'm not sure if I should get one of those scopes again...
If you are considering the M-1000 for yourself, would you let go the M-1200 ? Is it any good on 100 meter distances ? Brand new it's a bit stiff pricewise, but like I said, I wouldn't mind a used one that has been well treated.
Sizewise it shouldn't be much different from my NC Star, right ?
Mike
__________________
- si vis pacem, para bellum -
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mike-munich is offline
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01-25-2010, 11:55
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashville
Posts: 956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-munich
Blitzzz,
thank you for the information. I've looked, seems like NC Star bought TASCO. I'm not sure if I should get one of those scopes again...
If you are considering the M-1000 for yourself, would you let go the M-1200 ? Is it any good on 100 meter distances ? Brand new it's a bit stiff pricewise, but like I said, I wouldn't mind a used one that has been well treated.
Sizewise it shouldn't be much different from my NC Star, right ?
Mike
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This one hasn't been used at all. It's not even zeroed to the gun yet. I hadn't had time to do that/ I've been spending more tine on the other rifles.
I'll trade you the M-1200 for a M-1000. I don't know how that might fit budgets. The Leatherwood is a phenom.. I used the Art 1 and then the ARTll for 14 years as a sniper and swear by them. Fastest target acquisition of anything out there. Think about it..I've got time, I'll just put this on back in the box.
Shooting ANART scope at a 100 shouldn't be a problem when it's good for 1200 meters shots. With the ART one zeros at 300 meters and the ranging works Xhairs on out to 1200 meters. Shooting below the 300 meter line will require Hold under. This is made easy by the stadia line above and below the Xhair. 150 was directly on the bottom stadia.
__________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
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Blitzzz (RIP) is offline
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01-25-2010, 21:08
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,830
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If it is a work gun, how much is your life worth?
If it is for a hunting weapon, how much is that trophy animal worth?
If it is a plinker, and not for training, get whatever you want.
I would go to a good optics web site, like SWFA, and look at the Leupolds.
I am not a fan of the ARTs, but opinions vary.
Or you could just ship enough beer here, and we would send you one. Eventually. Kind of like an installment plan. For SF guys.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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01-25-2010, 22:28
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Mo
Posts: 1,541
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I'm with Reaper on this one: if you are going to use the scope for anything worthwhile, buy something good.
I've had good luck with Leopold. I have a boone and crockett reticle on a custom .308 that does real well (laid the smack down on a 6X6 elk last fall). A friend has one of the Leopold varmint hunter reticles on a 7mm ultra---that gun is a beast at 700 meters.(I know, "why a varmint hunter reticle on a 7mm ultra", he shoots some pretty crazy distance with the gun. Reloads his own stuff).
Also, there's always the chance that the bad guys might show up at your house.
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craigepo is offline
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01-25-2010, 22:44
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Leupold VX-III or VX-II with a duplex reticle. Decent scope, decent quality, and a reasonable price. SWFA or Optics Planet as a source. Otherwise you will eventually be disappointed. Burris, Bushnell, and Weaver all have relatively good tactical scopes in the $700.00 range. I checked all of them out at SHOT - shop around for best prices. They aren't Leupold and Leupold isn't NightForce, Zeiss, S&B, Swarovski, etc; however, they appear to be decent values for an entry level tactical scope. If you insist on cheap there's always Millet (tactical). Not sure I could stoop to mentioning Leapers - on par with NC Star in my opinion.  Personally, I'm sticking with Leupold until I can afford something better.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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01-25-2010, 22:55
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashville
Posts: 956
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Just a Leatherwood fan...
You guys always give grief over the ARTs. I've just never had any problems with any of the ones I've used. Hit where I cranked them. Oranges at 300 meters, Man sized silhouettes. at 1150 and 1250. I doubt I'd have done it with Iron sights.
__________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
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Blitzzz (RIP) is offline
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01-26-2010, 02:17
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#9
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bad Tölz, Germany + San Antonio, TX.
Posts: 307
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Blitzzz,
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Shooting below the 300 meter line will require Hold under. This is made easy by the stadia line above and below the Xhair. 150 was directly on the bottom stadia
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OK, thanks. That's what I wanted to know. Our range is only 100 meters and that's where I shoot most of the time.
TR,
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If it is a work gun, how much is your life worth?
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I hear you. That's why I want something dependable, but not necessarily in the $2000 price range like the Leupold VX-3. I was hoping there were less expensive scopes that I can trust (with my life, if I have to).
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Or you could just ship enough beer here, and we would send you one. Eventually. Kind of like an installment plan. For SF guys.
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How much beer are we talking here ? Hey, don't forget, I worked with SF in Tölz and I know how much you guys can drink. That would be a $2000 Leupold for $4000 worth of beer... 
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Also, there's always the chance that the bad guys might show up at your house
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There you go. That's why I want a reliable scope. If it fails on the range no problem, but it shouldn't fail me when I really need it. One never knows... Better safe than sorry.
Quote:
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Leupold VX-III or VX-II with a duplex reticle. Decent scope, decent quality, and a reasonable price
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I'm just looking at that... Seems like there are a few used ones around that might fit my budget.
Cheap isn't exactly what I'm looking for, budget-priced would be it. I had a "cheap" NC Star, and that failed me. I don't want that to happen again.
It's tough decision... Thank you for all your intel gentlemen, I highly appreciate it.
MM
__________________
- si vis pacem, para bellum -
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mike-munich is offline
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01-26-2010, 18:02
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,830
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I don't know where you are shopping, but a Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III is normally $400 or so here.
If you are being charged $2000, I will sell you one at half-price, and drink up the profit.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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01-26-2010, 19:09
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,665
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Whatever you do don't buy a Super Sniper (or other cheap scope), I did against the advice of TR and Crew and it was a complete waste of money.
I have a VX-III 4.5.x14x40 LR that works great and I think I picked it up for $340. I sold the Super Sniper and pick up a Leupold Mark 4 Tactical 4.5x14x40 for $650 off another board.
The only reason I wouldn't buy another VX-III is that I like having the target knobs and Mil-Dots. Other than the knobs both are great scopes.
Blitzz got me curious about the Leatherwood and it's is still on my shopping list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-munich
Gentlemen,
I've searched the forum already for infomation about rifle scopes. I did find a few things, although that didn't answer my questions.
I've read about $2000+ rifle scopes, but unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough for that.
I own a H&K SL8 (G36 conversion) with the civillian barrel. So far I have used a NC Star 3-12x50 scope, MIL Dot with illuminated reticle. Somehow, after 4 or 5 years of regular (weekly) use (maybe 10.000 rounds), the reticle became lose after the rifle tipped over to the side (not a big drop, it just fell over). The sight was off 7 centimeters to the left at 100 meters. I zeroed it back in and so far it's accurate.
I don't trust that scope anymore. I really liked the magnification and the MIL dot reticle + illumination, also the price on it was very good back then (under $300).
Do you have any suggestion for an "inexpensive", yet sturdy scope ? I know that a Schmid and Bender, or a Leupold, will do the job probably better, unfortunately they are about a month salary. I would consider a used one as well.
I shoot ~150-200 rounds per month, most of the time on a 100m, sometimes on a 300m military range.
Thanks in advance for your input.
v/r
Mike
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Last edited by Paslode; 01-26-2010 at 19:12.
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Paslode is offline
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01-26-2010, 19:28
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashville
Posts: 956
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Just curious....
a quick search for the Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III resulted is 597.00 on one site claiming the cheapest, others were 8 and 9 hundred bucks.
__________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
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Blitzzz (RIP) is offline
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01-27-2010, 01:57
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#13
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bad Tölz, Germany + San Antonio, TX.
Posts: 307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
I don't know where you are shopping, but a Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III is normally $400 or so here.
If you are being charged $2000, I will sell you one at half-price, and drink up the profit.
TR
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TR, I just looked again. The cheapest place around here has it for US$1300
http://www.hunters-point.de/index.ph...5-10x50mm.html
I know that they are alot cheaper in the US (like everything else, my BMW 323Ci I used to have was just as expensive as the M3 BMW at the Wichita, KS. dealership...). That's why I buy my stuff in the US of A. The Germans get 42% income tax from me, 19% sales tax and about $7.50/gallon for my fuel. I spend the remaining money somewhere else... 
I'm currently looking into the "used scopes" section of various websites and forums.
Thanks again gentlemen !
P.S. @Paslode:
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Whatever you do don't buy a Super Sniper (or other cheap scope),
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Wilco ! 
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- si vis pacem, para bellum -
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mike-munich is offline
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01-27-2010, 19:50
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzzz
a quick search for the Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III resulted is 597.00 on one site claiming the cheapest, others were 8 and 9 hundred bucks.
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$479.95 at SWFA.
http://swfa.com/Leupold-35-10x40-VX-...pe-P12647.aspx
Have it shipped to a buddy, take it home after your next visit.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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01-27-2010, 20:18
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#15
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clay House Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 2,677
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A year or so ago I decided that I wanted to get into long range shooting but didn't want to spend a lot of money in the begining so I bought a Weaver 10X40 Mildot tactical scope for $400.00 So far I've been impressed with it. If I get better and decide to spend more money I'll take the advice of some of the guys here and go with either a Leupold or another high quality brand.
I don't shoot a few hundred meters though, I live near the desert where there is unlimited range.
Last edited by mojaveman; 07-18-2011 at 23:27.
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