General: Drop Bayonet From Army Training

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.military.com/news/article...tml?ESRC=eb.nl


BMT

[caveman]

I don't see how removing bayonet training from the curriculum would free up that much more time for training other tasks. IIRC when I went through basic a few years back bayonet training was only one or two days long.

I think the benefits of bayonet training are not to make a Soldier a competent dummy-sticker but rather the sense of accomplishment a Soldier gets from running screaming through the Bayonet Assault Course. I think it's a pretty important step in the transition from civilian to soldier and helps instill that all important warrior mindset.

[Pete]

".....Hertling also wants combatives or hand-to-hand fighting to de-emphasize grappling or basic wrestling moves. Instead, Soldiers need to learn to fight with their hands and use anything they can grab -- whether it is a knife or stick -- as a weapon, he added.

Recruits need to learn how to use their hands, the St. Louis native said. "A greater majority of recruits have never been in a fistfight," he added......."

Well, OK then who's fault is that. Drinking and Hay Street used to take care of that last item.

Look at the way kids are raised today - this all starts with no Dodge Ball in the younger years.

This boils down to "Do you want a Warrier mentality or something else?"

"What's the purpose of the bayonet?" "TO KILL, DRILL SERGEANT"

"What's the purpose of the pencil?" "Well, Drill Sergeant, you could use it to write a memo but it could also be used to..............."

[lksteve]

Armor officer....

[Five-O]

Originally Posted by lksteve

Armor officer....

And completely out of touch...

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Pete

"What's the purpose of the bayonet?" "TO KILL, DRILL SERGEANT[S]"

Oh! There’s a comma in the middle of that phrase. No wonder I spent so much time holding my M-14 in the “thrust” position.

Pat

[Utah Bob]

I've got an idea. We'll build a fighter and call it the Phantom. We won't put any guns on it because they're old school and all the air to air combat from now on will be missiles so there's no need for old timey guns on the plane and.......

[Richard]

Soldiers threatening to kill someone with knives whose blades are longer than 2" - a nightmare for the TSA, DHS, and any number of local school boards - not to mention a few Drills I've known. Is this GO fixing to retire and run for office...or maybe he and Lorena Bobbit are gonna start a company and get one of those lucrative govt contracts to 'outsource' the combat cutlery training program for the DOD.

Richard's jaded $.02

[mojaveman]

Well, OK then who's fault is that. Drinking and Hay Street used to take care of that last item.

Hey Pete,

I heard that the city of Fayetteville cleaned up Hay St. to include closing Rick's Lounge.

[craigepo]

"Madam, I regret to inform you that your son has been killed in action, because his position was overrun, and he and his unit: (a) knew neither how to attach their bayonets to their rifles, nor how to use them, or (b) were not issued bayonets because they are no longer part of the Army inventory."

Either answer sucks and is not acceptable.

[CL31542]

“…In today's wars, there's no reason for Soldiers to learn how to fix bayonets to their rifles and disembowel an enemy combatant, Hertling said….”

Evidently the Brits didn’t get the word: http://www.army.mod.uk/news/17035.aspx

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Pete

".....Hertling also wants combatives or hand-to-hand fighting to de-emphasize grappling or basic wrestling moves. Instead, Soldiers need to learn to fight with their hands and use anything they can grab -- whether it is a knife or stick -- as a weapon, he added.

Recruits need to learn how to use their hands, the St. Louis native said. "A greater majority of recruits have never been in a fistfight," he added......."

Well, OK then who's fault is that. Drinking and Hay Street used to take care of that last item.

Look at the way kids are raised today - this all starts with no Dodge Ball in the younger years.

This boils down to "Do you want a Warrier mentality or something else?"

"What's the purpose of the bayonet?" "TO KILL, DRILL SERGEANT"

"What's the purpose of the pencil?" "Well, Drill Sergeant, you could use it to write a memo but it could also be used to..............."

Excellent post Pete,couldn't have said it any better........

Big Teddy

[Pete]

Originally Posted by mojaveman

Hey Pete,

I heard that the city of Fayetteville cleaned up Hay St. to include closing Rick's Lounge.

Up the street a block Ricks held out for a few more years but by around 1987 just about everything on the 500 block was gone. The last hold out was Rosie's on the south side.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by CL31542

“…In today's wars, there's no reason for Soldiers to learn how to fix bayonets to their rifles and disembowel an enemy combatant, Hertling said….”

Evidently the Brits didn’t get the word: http://www.army.mod.uk/news/17035.aspx

I wish it was possible to sent this to that General's email or facebook or what ever to let him see it's still possible to use the bayonet in combat..... Any ideas of how this might be done?

Big Teddy

[ZonieDiver]

Soldiers need to learn to fight with their hands and use anything they can grab -- whether it is a knife or stick -- as a weapon, he added.

First day in the "Hand-to-Hand 'Pit'" at Camp Mackall, SFC Martin (that's "Hand-to-Hand" Martin, not "Bear" Martin) told us from the get-go that as far as he was concerned, the title of his class was misleading. He actually said, "There ain't no such thing as hand-to-hand combat. That is exactly the reason God invented sticks and rocks and such."

He did, however, instruct the class in the "spirit of the bayonet" - which is as has been previously stated - "Kill!"

<rant on> To me, this is much like PADI's removal of "buddy breathing" from the Open Water Scuba Diver course in the 90's and making it "optional." It has recently been removed - banned - from the course. Equipment can't fail! No need to learn difficult skills. (It is time for me to become an "emeritus" instructor.) <rant off>