Nicer Drill Sergeants?

[bandycpa]

Do you all think this is a good thing? - Bandy



http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15210867/?GT1=8618

Army: Nicer drill sergeants more effective
Recruits said to be better in boot camp now that they're not being yelled at
The Associated Press

Updated: 4:10 p.m. ET Oct 10, 2006

WASHINGTON - Hollywood may have to tone down its portrayal of the military’s screaming, in-your-face boot camp drill sergeant.

In today’s Army, shouting is out and a calmer approach to molding young minds is in, says the head of Pentagon personnel.

The Army says it has reduced by nearly 7 percent the number of recruits who wash out in the first six to 12 months of military life.

“Part of it is changing the nature of how it treats people in basic training,” David S. Chu, undersecretary for personnel and readiness, said Tuesday.

That means “less shouting at everyone, in essence, which some of you may remember from an earlier generation as being the modus operandi,” he said.

The changes started about a year ago, as defense officials looked for ways to make drillmasters more effective, said Lt. Col. Mike Jones, head of Army National Guard recruiting.

He said the old way was to “talk loud, talk often, get their attention” — shock treatment to teach discipline and mold the newly recruited civilian into a soldier.

But trainers found today’s generation responded better to instructors who took “a more counseling” type role, Jones said, using strong tactics when needed but keeping them the exception instead of the rule.

No longer training in fear
The approach has had two positive results, he said: It has lowered attrition among those who go through training each year and has eased one of the greatest fears of recruits — their fear over whether they can make it through basic training.

Other changes aimed at improving graduation rates include such things as letting recruits with injuries or minor medical problems remain in the service, heal, and then go back to training. Before, an injury would have meant discharge, training officials said.

Numbers differ from service to service and depend on what the recruit is being trained for. Those training to be Navy SEALS or other special forces may wash out at the rate of 70 percent. Those training to be truck drivers may have an 80 percent graduation rate.

But Chu said that across all services, generally, some two-thirds of recruits finish their enlistment period — typically three or four years.

Some drop out within six months
Of the third who don’t make it, half bomb out in the first six to 12 months, Chu said, adding that the attrition rate is better than most private sector firms.

Keeping a balance in the number flushed out of the service is important. Too many dropouts and you lose people you really want to keep. Too few dropouts, and you are keeping people you should have let go, Chu said.

Both the military and police academies are moving away from harder-edged approaches to training, he said.

“However much it may be satisfying from the shouter’s perspective, it really isn’t the best way to shape young people for the future,” Chu said.

He made the comments as he announced that all active duty services had met their recruiting goals for the budget year ended Sept. 30. The Marine Corps Reserve met its goal and the Air Force Reserve exceeded its goal, but they were exceptions among guard and reserve forces, some of which have seen “heavy use” due to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Chu said.

[The Reaper]

If you can't handle being yelled at, how will you handle people trying to kill you?

Bad idea, unless you have an incrementally more stressful program that eventually reaches serious pressure.

I see nothing wrong with the Marine reception model.

IMHO, as long as the training does not physically injure you, there is no issue.

TR

[Sgt_Metz]

Having a DS yell and shout and nit pick everything you do should be what inspires you to improve your performance. My mindest was always, what can i do better to shut this fool up? It taught me attention to detail, to never settle for the minimum, and you always have to maintain your SA. Admitedly it did have the reverse affect on a small number of other recruits, but to be honest, they weren't the ones you'd want in you foxhole anyway. I've always rather run a team/section with fewer soldiers who were motivated then a fully manned one with slackers. just my 2¢

[Monsoon65]

Having gone through the easiest Basic Training program, most of the guys in my flight said they wished it were tougher and the instructors harder on us. I tend to agree. TR is right; as long as it doesn't physically harm you, you're good to go.

Didn't Nietsche say, "What doesn't kill me makes me strong?"

[Wiseman]

I didn't have those nice drill sergeants. In my training company, it sucked for me from Week 1 to Week 14. Although, they were already implementing low stress companies in Benning in 2005. I asked some of those recruits once if they ever got smoked or yelled at and they said no.

[x SF med]

I read the article last night, and wondered if I should post it here - I wasn't sure if I should laugh or cry on reading it either. This kinder gentler shit is going to kill more people than a well trained enemy.

And somehow, after IN Basic/AIT (OSUT) at Ft. Beginning, with a Jr. Drill that decided he hated me the second he saw me (I was already Jump qualified, and he wanted to go Airborne, but was stuck in DI status) was actually a great precursor for all of the other training I received in the Army - the enemy will not ask you if your psyche is going to be damaged when he attacks you, the weather will not always cooperate, stress is a given. This is crap, pure and unadulterated, just to get recruiting numbers up - I'd rather serve wit h10 guys who want to do it , can handle the stress and are motivated than 100 guys who are whiny little shitheads trying to badgefind and kiss ass.

[Maytime]

I think everyone is spot-on from what I've read thus far. At Ft. Sill, we had a good balance of mind games (i.e. smoking for no reason) and the real deal (where someone or everyone is jacked up).

The difficulty started out very high, but as time went on, people started to screw up less, which meant less time being berated by the DS's and more time training and learning from them. By the end, when we got smoked, we all knew it was just to keep us fit, so we did it with smiles on our faces (no joke). Also, by that time, the Blue Falcons were mostly gone, which made our training more motivating.

Looking back on it, I wish it was harder.

I remember Fort Sill well. I think basic training is like anything else in the army--if you're assertive, and stand up for yourself as a man you'll have very little problems. However, if they're going to go to this kinder-gentler method of instruction--maybe they should have tryouts for the more elite units from the beginning. Run a selection process for the Tier 1 Special operations and SF units, and then have the dropouts go to the kinder gentler army, and the more motivated, goal oriented recruits to the special operations community for gruesome vetting. Also, if this is going to be the case, and supposedly more emphasis will be placed on mastery of the training--they should have MEPS psychologically screen candidates before they arrive to help weed out the weaker candidates. You'd also have a better idea if someone would catastrophically screw up a position they were assigned to, MOS, or otherwise. Just my .02.

Snake

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by bandycpa

Do you all think this is a good thing? - Bandy

Army: Nicer drill sergeants more effective
Recruits said to be better in boot camp now that they're not being yelled at
The Associated Press

I think its a great idea, right up there with less than lethal force equipment for soldiers and Marines.

Heck, we in the military should be looking into hostage negotiation units, rubber bullets and pepper spray for future deployments and knocking on doors and announcing ourselves and our intentions "before" busting them down.

The new motto should have been "A kinder gentler Army than your mom served in....."

Team Sergeant

[aricbcool]

Originally Posted by Monsoon65

Didn't Nietsche say, "What doesn't kill me makes me strong?"

I thought it was: "That which does not kill me, postpones the inevitable."

http://www.despair.com/adversity.html

--Aric

[The Reaper]

This is the logical result of the older recruiting age standards, waived entry weight limits, lowered entry intelligence requirements, increased physical waivers, loosened criminal disqualifiers, etc.

We have fewer well-qualified soldiers and more fodder/sheeple, who need the coddling to keep from disturbing them to the point where they need their meds/mommies again.

Look for higher body counts and increased stupidity from soldiers, especially in the combat zones.

Old, stupid, fat, broke down, criminal junior enlisted troops who can't handle stress (like being verbally chastised) against the enemy. Just what we need during a counter-insurgency campaign....

At least it should help drive the remaining squared away soldiers out of conventional units and into SF.

TR

[kgoerz]

In the mid nineties we had some privates from the 82nd working as Pit Puppies during some Sniper Training. One of them showed me a Stress Card from Basic just to show me they really existed. I begged him to give it to me but he wouldn't budge. Also when visiting Camp Lejune one of the Marines showed me the Safety Circle. A circle painted on the ground where a recruit could run to and not get yelled at. They were told to enter the circle or pull out the stress card when they felt too much pressure/stress. Do these abominations of training still exist?

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by kgoerz

One of them showed me a Stress Card from Basic just to show me they really existed. I begged him to give it to me but he wouldn't budge.

Begged? A private! He would not budge!

You did not threaten him with his life?

Didn't tell him by 0500 the next morning everyone with the same last name would be killed? Threaten to rip out his throat and shit down his lungs if he did not turn over the card???

You do realize you've left us no choice and we now have to ban you forever.

Team Sergeant
Wondering where we went wrong......

[kgoerz]

Begged? A private! He would not budge!

I was trying to be a nicer SF Soldier........

I wanted it because no one would believe me when I told them about the Stress card. He wanted to keep it for the same reason. Besides they were our Score Keepers also and we don't want to piss them off...LOL

[NousDefionsDoc]

kg couldn't do anything to him, the private was in his safety pit - no yelling, no threats....