05-14-2007, 13:49
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,527
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El Ejercito de Los Estados Unidos-or US ARMY?
What language should the Army and other Armed Forces of the United States utilize? We are a diverse group of citizens and "striving to be citizens" from across our Nation and territories-seemingly united in our cause and belief as dictated by, if nothing else, our oath of enlistment.
Army Regulation 600-20, Army Command Policy, has a small blurb in Chapter 4, paragraph 13. So aptly named, the Army Language Policy. I quote from the regulation:
4–13. Army language policy
English is the operational language of the Army. Soldiers must maintain sufficient proficiency in English to perform their military duties. Their operational communications must be understood by everyone who has an official need to know their content, and, therefore, must normally be in English. However, commanders may not require Soldiers to use English unless such use is clearly necessary and proper for the performance of military functions. Accordingly, commanders may not require the use of English for personal communications that are unrelated to military functions.
What this means to me is that in the general performance of official duties, personnel in uniform should speak English. This of course does not apply to dealings in foreign nations where utilization of another language is necessary for official duties etc.....
Further, in a service members off time, if they choose to speak another language-no issue. I have no difficulty with this particular interpretation, as it is my own.
We have several units on our FOB from Puerto Rico and other predominantly Spanish speaking areas (USAR / NG units)...they come to the aid station QUITE FREQUENTLY and very often our medical staff has to wait until the unit sends up a translator because the soldiers cannot, or will not, speak English. I have become quite fed up with this situation and have refused to be the "translator" any longer.
The other day, one of their medics came in with a patient who I know speaks English because I treated him for a VERY minor / superficial GSW about 3 weeks ago. Graze wound, no sutures required etc....the medic brought him BACK in for visit number 7 since his incident and he refused to interact with my medical staff in English, preferring instead to speak Spanish to his medic and have her relay the information. I considered this as part of official military duties, not personal conversation, and stated it as such. Further, I told them that while wearing the US Army uniform and presenting in my aid station as either a medic or a patient, they would speak English because the remainder of my staff didn't speak Spanish and had no way of knowing what was being said.
So TODAY...I get notified of my pending EO complaint. I was confronted by their unit's leadership because I "wasn't nice to their soldier" when I told them they would speak English around my staff and while performing official duties. Their argument was that the conversation was a private matter and therefor protected by the language policy.
I asked him exactly how anyone ELSE was supposed to know the conversation was a private matter who didn't speak Spanish? For all my staff knew, they were being belittled and berated and were the butt of unfriendly comments. After all, who was going to say otherwise if they weren't fluent in another language?
I know the complaint will go nowhere because the medic was acting in an official capacity and translating the patients words. This is not my concern or the point of this topic.
I'd like to offer this up for discussion because this is disturbing to me. Perhaps my views are antiquated, or just plain wrong?
I speak Spanish. I have worked in countries all over the world. When I am working someplace else, I make every attempt to learn as much about the language and culture as I can-because that is a part of that nation's identity and their populations identity. I know more than 50, but less than 75 words in Arabic from my time here, and I utilize them to interact with the locals. If nothing else, they get a kick out of it  But, if I were to join their Army, I would be expected to know and use their language. I do not think this request unreasonable.
I have a very negative view regarding illegal immigration and it's effects nationwide. I realize that these soldiers are NOT illegal immigrants, but also that they are making little to no demonstrated effort to assimilate themselves into the language portion of the culture of the United States. This then bleeds into service in the Armed Forces outside their own secluded little area back home; where speaking only in Spanish is acceptable. Some of them have even produced their deployment medical record....all forms and entries are in Spanish.
So, I open the floor to points of view and opinion.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
Last edited by Eagle5US; 05-14-2007 at 14:02.
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Eagle5US is offline
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05-14-2007, 14:00
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,093
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You are obviously a better person than am I. I think I would do a little play on words and post a large sign that reads: "Those that cannot/will not speak English are obviously suffering from Hepatitis Si and will report to the rear of the dispensary for a cold GG shot. 
__________________
Wenn einer von uns fallen sollt, der Andere steht für zwei.
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Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
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05-14-2007, 14:07
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,813
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The 82nd used to be an ESL organization at one point. I think they solved that problem.
I agree with you that when wearing a US Army uniform and operating in an official capacity on a US military facility, soldiers should speak English.
You might ask them how the got into the US Army, since all of the schools in PR teach English, and the Army requires a certain level of proficiency to join. You can pretty much bet that the drills they had did not put up with the "No hablo Engles" BS. US Army soldiers reporting to your Aid Station should find a "speak English to the staff or no treatment" policy in effect.
I could care less what they speak in their off duty hours. On duty, you speak English. Medical care is serious business. Proper diagnosis and treatment requires good dialogue between the practioner and the patient. Otherwise, serious misunderstandings could result. Like believing that all patients refusing to speak English have a serious social disease requiring 2.4 million units in each cheek. A DRE on every visit. And the consequent loss of shot records, requiring frequent revaccinations. I would say that patient privacy concerns should also prohibit translators between soldiers of the same military.
The Commander needs to publish a policy letter reiterating AR 600-20, requiring English be spoken during duty hours, and offering remedial classes for those who are unable to speak English at a 2/2 level or better.
How about asking your CoC to support the Army policy and go to the PR CoC requesting their support? Soldiers not complying should be counseled, retrained, and if willfully not complying, UCMJed for ART. 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER, ART. 90. ASSAULTING OR WILLFULLY DISOBEYING SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER, and ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION. You are a commissioned officer, if your CoC fails to support you in compliance with the AR, request a transfer.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-14-2007, 14:11
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,527
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Hay Chihuahua!!!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
The Commander needs to publish a policy letter reiterating AR 600-20, requiring English be spoken during duty hours, and offering remedial classes for those who are unable to speak English at a 2/2 level or better.
TR
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Sir,
THIS is a most outstanding idea. I do believe that I will embark on this mission tomorrow. 
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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05-14-2007, 14:15
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,813
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eagle5US
Sir,
THIS is a most outstanding idea. I do believe that I will embark on this mission tomorrow.
Eagle |
Do you want to volunteer to teach it in your spare time?
Hey, how did you wind up deploying with this leg unit, anyway, 754 brother? 
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-14-2007, 14:24
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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El Ejercito de Los Estados Unidos-or US ARMY?
Way back when I was a DS in a Basic Tng Reg't, that problem was easy to solve. I made the best one that could HABLO their squad leader. Smoked his ass if the job wasn't done right.
Time for on post pass, I would put up a list for those wanting a pass. They were always first in line. Sorry no HABLO I can't let you out of the Co. area. Next mornin' they all spoke good English.
BMT
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Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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05-14-2007, 14:28
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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This shouldn't even be a point of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Les digo otra hijueputa cosa también, si la gente no puede hablar como es, no deben de estar en el ejercito. La mierda ya está el reglamentación, lo que falta es castigar la primara marica que la viola. Para mí, es una falta de respeto a hablar en español o cualquier otro idioma que los comandantes no pueden entender. Dios sabe lo que están diciendo.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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05-14-2007, 14:31
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,527
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Well, ya see it was like this....
To be honest Sir,
I called it like I saw it with someone who had significant influence over my immediate future. Though it was the right thing to do, I am now living the consequences of voicing the truth
This is very temporary though. I have been making contacts. My reputation is solid in the community it seems. For that I am both humble and greatfull.
As far as teaching.....no friggin thanks. 
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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05-14-2007, 18:30
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
Posts: 4,741
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
This shouldn't even be a point of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Les digo otra hijueputa cosa también, si la gente no puede hablar como es, no deben de estar en el ejercito. La mierda ya está el reglamentación, lo que falta es castigar la primara marica que la viola. Para mí, es una falta de respeto a hablar en español o cualquier otro idioma que los comandantes no pueden entender. Dios sabe lo que están diciendo.
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Sounds like NDD just volunteered to come over and lend a hand/BOOT for you!!!
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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05-14-2007, 19:40
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Try the FFL method - hand them an English-Spanish dictionary and treat IAW whatever they translate. Ought to be "good for whatever ails 'em". A la otra mano - estoy de acuerdo completo con NDD. Los vale vergas deberan aprender a hablar Ingles. Si no lo hagan bien, sus lideres tienen el DEBER de mandar entrenamiento extra en Ingles - tal como todos sus subordinados tienen un mando adequado. Supuestamente no es un castigo ni esta en contra del intento del reglamiento si tiene un proposito militar - tal como La Escuela del Soldado. NDD - How do you get the Spanish characters on an English keyboard? My .02 - Peregrino
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Peregrino is offline
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05-14-2007, 19:46
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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There is a Spanish spell checker for Firefox, but it don't work real good. I usually type it in word and then paste it.
I'm sure some smart ass will now come on here and tell us all how there is a better way and I'm doing it wrong...
Great idea about remedial training.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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05-14-2007, 19:55
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,045
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
There is a Spanish spell checker for Firefox, but it don't work real good. I usually type it in word and then paste it.
I'm sure some smart ass will now come on here and tell us all how there is a better way and I'm doing it wrong...
Great idea about remedial training.
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Well, there is a way. . .
. . . can I be the smart ass? 
__________________
"Are you listening or just waiting to talk?"
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
"Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing."
Optimus Prime
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Kyobanim is offline
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05-14-2007, 20:08
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyobanim
Well, there is a way. . .
. . . can I be the smart ass? |
Only if it's comprehensible to the average (ME ) knuckledragger. I don't do as much Spanish language work as I ought to to maintain proficiency; but, when I do I would like to "do it right." Peregrino
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Peregrino is offline
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05-14-2007, 20:15
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
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Split it please. We're off-topic on Eagle's thread.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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05-14-2007, 20:23
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
Posts: 4,741
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While working in Puerto Rico a few years back, the "Locals" would always revert to Spanish when I entered the area. After being down there a while, I could understand and read more than I could speak, having had 4 years of Latin and beeing around Hispanics all of my life. One afternoon, I answered the phone in the Supervisors Office and called to him in the following manner: "Jose.....while waving my hand towards him....ding wa lade!!" He came over and asked me what I was trying to say in Spanish and I replied: I was not "attempting" to say something in Spanish, I was talking to you the way I would have spoken to one of my Rhade tribesmen!! He said "Who are they??!" and I replied that they were the Mountain People in Viet Nam and if his crew didn't start speaking in English, that I would start telling him what needed to be done each day in "Rhade" and then jumping his ass the next day because it hadn't been done!!!
It worked!!
Later
Martin
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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