OPSEC OR CENSORSHIP? Does this mean we have to stop posting on PS.com?

[JGarcia]

OPSEC?

CDR's are going to go into CYA mode and nothing will be approved for release. Is this in response to LTC. Yingling?

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

I think ps.com does a pretty good job about policing OPSEC and dropping the hammer on those that violate it. Remember most of us have a vested interest in security as we have comtemporaries and family serving. Most of us also do not cut the bonds that we forged as brothers over the years and non of us would ever place folks in harms way with whom we served nor those that have picked up the torch for us. We still stand with those with whom we served, respect those who serve today, and while our rucks may be hung up we still willingly carry the weight of duty, honor and country. The problem today is that folks seem to like the anonimity of cyber space and many use screen names not for personal security but to hide their own identity to remain unaccountable for letting their mouth overload their ass. While many want to be heard they do not want to stand toe to toe with those with whom they have a problem. This medium allows instant fire and forget action where you can dive back into your foxhole hoping that while text hits home no one heard from where the shot came. In the way back when, you knocked on a door, spoke your piece and got the other side of the story. If you had a problem that you thought still needed attention you did what you were supposed to resolve it and it was kept in house, dealt with in house with folks that knew how to solve it. Today folks are playing in the court of public opinion; unfortunately the publics' opinion is often under or uneducated and built on nonsense. Even the term "blog" sounds like something that was hacked up from the depth of an infected sinus. While there is some value to being able to get the word out instanteously and get it off your chest, bullshit at the speed of light is still bullshit.

[kachingchingpow]

Col.

That is one of the most well thought out assessments of cyberspace forums that I have read in quite some time. Having designed several message board websites (centered around fishing & hunting), we've grappled with the anonimity associated with message boards, and the problems that go along with them. What was intended as a virtual front porch "spit and whittle" experience inevitably provides the cover for some to grow virtual balls 5 times their size. We've had "meet and greets" for board members, and invariably those ones that pop off at the keyboard, generally making a mess of things are the most quiet and introverted of the group.

"Even the term "blog" sounds like something that was hacked up from the depth of an infected sinus." - classic quote... needs to be preserved somewhere.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by NG_M4_Shooter

CDR's are going to go into CYA mode and nothing will be approved for release. Is this in response to LTC. Yingling?

I think in a way yes, but then again No.

Everybody hates to here the phrase "Soldier, you need to step back and see the Big Picture" but sometimes the phrase is true.

With the instant communications via e-mail, blogs and cell phones people in the combat zones can talk to "the world" instantly. While most are funny and well intentioned, some attack policy and some violate OPSEC. Are the attacks true or just the persons opinion based on his view from where he's at? Is it OPSEC or the Commander trying to CYA?

True or not, posts can race around the world at the speed of light. A false rumor out on the web can never be killed. Snopes.com can't cover everything. OPSEC can get people killed.

This subject is a hard rope to balance on.

No mater what, the press will make the Military look like the bad guys.

Pete

[TF Kilo]

my squad leader had to read my handwritten letters back to mom, pop, and suzie rottencrotch...

My internet communications were monitored, as well as the phone.. I even got to see the typed out manuscript, which was neat.

I think that there's alot of communications from overseas that irregardless of tactical or strategic operational value to the enemy, don't need to be happening.

I mean, in all honesty, the only thing that you can really say is "I'm here, it sucks" over and over.

Even temperatures or time of day/season are indicators..... it's the little things that kill...

[The Reaper]

When, in the history of the United States, have combatants been able to make their impressions available to family members and the American public within minutes of the engagement, and to be on the phone with members of the media or their elected representatives within minutes as well? In WW II, Korea, or early Vietnam, official correspondence was by telegram, phone calls home were rare to nonexistent, and there was no way to reach strangers at home and around the world unless the media picked up your story and ran it.

As JM stated, most people color their view with their personal perspective and opinion, the true facts usually lie somewhere more or less further away, depending on emotion and expectations.

So, we actually have the capability now for a soldier to report his version of an event before the media can, and to reach millions of people within a day or two, including the enemy.

Is this good, or bad? We may not know for years, but the military will have a policy on it, and it needs to be a good one that protects the force while preserving the rights of the soldier.

Just my .02.

TR

[Ret10Echo]

Most soldiers will look at any form of censorship as a bad thing. Joe is looking at his mail / email / blog entry from his perspective.

The Army looks at the broader scope. How much open source data can you pile up and make something that is compromising to current operations?

Time delay is the only factor. We don't like it when the press breaks a story on an upcoming operation...or they are waiting on the LZ. Can't imagine what sort of operational picture you could pull on a minute by minute basis by way of the current level of connectivity.

[JGarcia]

I have busted Libs balls for supporting one freedom (speach) while trouncing another (the right to bear arms). I understand the need for opsec - Our lives, our success, our nation depends on it. Certainly there are ways to provide this, as some of you have mentioned 'time delay' in other posts in this thread, or simply enforcing the regulations in existence. (enforce guns laws dont make new ones)

But, (and I like officers) some of the officers I have had the misfortune of serving with, will in an instant, simply ban all communications - and will then have the blessing of the Army to do so. The big picture is important, agreed. But how many more rights/freedoms must we do without? Where do we draw the line in the sand that says, "it stops here." ?

If you look at this on a linear chart, we are slowly moving in the direction of fewer and fewer rights. Where does this end? ** Worried**

[blue02hd]

I read the link that NG M4 originally posted, and I still am not impressed. I guess I keep remembering when a young wife who's husband was in another Platoon I was deployed with learned of her husbands death by reading it on an FRG site. That is wrong on so many levels it can't ever be excused away. I wonder how that poor 20 something wife would respond to this post?

I have no sympathy for anyone who feels their personal rights have been infringed, especially if they have raised their right hand and swore an oath. Sometimes service really demands some MAJOR sacrifice. If it makes the offended happy, I'll research a "Milblog free" medal for Congress to consider in order to console those who have been unplugged.

Just recently I had a conversation with friends that instruct in various portions of "the pipeline". They told me how amazed I would be about about "milblogs" created by students in the course that outline our training. I understand that steps are in place to correct this.

If it really burns someones muffins not to be able to post like "Rosie O'Donnel" then atleast they have the satisfaction that after they get out they can write a book on their experiences. Just like George Tenent. Hmmm, I wonder if he had a blog?

I shall now end my blog,,,,

[groundup]

I think it needs to be narrowed down to mission oriented information. Or, if you are in a combat area. For someone stateside (not dealing with combat operations) to have to submit their posts to their commander for approval is absurd in my opinion.

[Daver]

The CBS national news just ran this story and honestly I think there is still too much wiggle room here. Blogs will have to be approved but E mails aren't. OK, so technically, soldiers can still report information but it won't have the ability to touch so many people at once. Someone explain to me how sending out sensitive, sometimes very critical information, in near real time to a civilian who is not a decidion maker, regarding life or death combat situations is a good thing anyway. The fact that YOUTUBE has become a posting place where Soldiers can go on a patrol, get shot at, blown up, and treat the dead and wounded, and film it all, then go back to their FOB and post it online for all to see is rediculous. When a Soldier posts a Blog and in detail, describes the horrors of combat and the effects it has on morale, doesn't the enemy use that as a continued source of motivation to keep attacking us.
Call me old school, but while the internet has improved many aspects of our daily lives, it has also complicated them. It will be hard to go back but maybe that's what needs to happen. The enemy is smart and they are flexible. If they can gleen even the slightest amount of information on tactics, equipment, and abilities, they will adjust their tactics, equipment, and abilites to attack us.
This war is not "Show and Tell"..it's war and good men and women die everyday. My daughter will soon be over there as a nurse and she will deal directly with the carnage we see on TV. If she is safer because the higher ups only allow her 1 phone call home per week, than I'm OK with that.

Mission First...Men always

[CRad]

Originally Posted by groundup

I think it needs to be narrowed down to mission oriented information. Or, if you are in a combat area. For someone stateside (not dealing with combat operations) to have to submit their posts to their commander for approval is absurd in my opinion.

Well, sure unless you are getting info from an unchecked source and posting it for your buddy because his stuff has to be submitted to the CO. Never underestimate the ability of soldiers to get around regulations. Besides, the Army is a one-size fits all type place. That's what I think anyway and I could be wrong.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by groundup

For someone stateside (not dealing with combat operations) to have to submit their posts to their commander for approval is absurd in my opinion.

Perhaps, but then perhaps not. What makes you think that some seemingly insignificant post concerning anything of military nature when combined with other seemingly insignificant posts cannot provide an intelligence bonanza? Something simple such as a training event, the introduction of a new piece of equipment, or a bitch concerning the failure of a system or a slump in moral or discipline provides an opening for not only exploitation but psyops. While the reaction to some things like this can in fact be overkill, or appear to be overkill, it is only so because there is a distinct lacking in discipline and maturity within certain levels or units that create hardships for all. If you need but one example, think about what Abu Graeb did because some shit birds had to just be "cool". Something dumb, like the wrong pocket litter, can burn you and this is nothing more than inappropriate pocket litter than needs to be cleaned up for those who want to hang out their dirty laundry for all to see.

[Daver]

Perhaps, but then perhaps not. What makes you think that some seemingly insignificant post concerning anything of military nature when combined with other seemingly insignificant posts cannot provide an intelligence bonanza? Something simple such as a training event, the introduction of a new piece of equipment, or a bitch concerning the failure of a system or a slump in moral or discipline provides an opening for not only exploitation but psyops.



JM,
I agree. My earlier post was so similar to yours. I don't think enough folks understand "2nd, 3rd, and 4th order effects", or even an understanding of how their actions can cause any number of resulting reactions. As a young Soldier, my NCO's taught me how my actions or lack thereof will cause a reaction or lack thereof. This enemy we face now is College Educated in many cases and may very well have spent time in Western Countries learning about our customs and way of life.....oh wait, that's how SF guys work too!

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Daver

As a young Soldier, my NCO's taught me how my actions or lack thereof will cause a reaction or lack thereof.

As did my NCOs. Of course with the tragic comedy that today's elementary education has become most kids have never heard the rhyme "For the Want of a Nail". I am sorry I missed seeing your post before I let my fingers stomp on my keyboard, I could have saved some space on the site as you hit all the points I wanted to make.