Stink at the Highest levels?

[sg1987]

Is this a surprise?

Two Senior Iraqi Generals Eyed in Brazen Attack on U.S. Soldiers
Thursday , February 01, 2007



Several Iraqis have been detained for questioning in the ongoing investigation of at least two senior Iraqi generals suspected of involvement in an insurgent attack that killed five American soldiers on Jan. 20, U.S. officials told FOX News on Thursday.

The attack occurred at a provincial government security compound in Karbala where the Americans were meeting with local Iraqi security officers. Gunmen stormed the facility dressed like American soldiers and driving SUVs, military officials in Iraq said.

The Pentagon has called this a sophisticated and troubling assault and much more orchestrated than the usual attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces. Because of that, military officials say they have strong suspicions that the Iranian government or elements of it may have been involved. Four of the five American soldiers were abducted before being shot execution style.

The raid, which began after nightfall at about 6 p.m. local time, was carried out by nine to 12 militants wearing new U.S. military fatigues and traveling in black GMC Suburban vehicles — the type used by U.S. government convoys. U.S. officials said the imposters had American weapons and spoke English.

The bodies of four of the five U.S. soldiers killed in the attack were found later miles away from the compound suggesting they may have briefly been kidnapped before they died.

The military said two of the soldiers were handcuffed together in the back seat of an SUV near the southern Iraqi town of Mahawil. A third dead soldier was on the ground nearby and a fourth died en route to the hospital.

"The precision of the attack, the equipment used and the possible use of explosives to destroy the military vehicles in the compound suggests that the attack was well rehearsed prior to execution," said Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, spokesman for Multi-National Division-Baghdad.

"The attackers went straight to where Americans were located in the provincial government facility, bypassing the Iraqi police in the compound," he said. "We are looking at all the evidence to determine who or what was responsible for the breakdown in security at the compound and the perpetration of the assault."

This is the first reported time that gunmen have apparently been able to pass themselves off as American soldiers to carry out an attack.

At least one of the Iraqi generals under suspicion for involvement or having advance word of the attack is said to be an intelligence officer, according to U.S. officials. If that's proven to be the case, the involvement of Iraqi generals in an attack on American forces raises questions about the loyalty and trustworthiness of Iraqi military officers at the highest levels.

Those concerns would be compounded if it's determined that Iran had a hand in the attack.

Pvt. Johnathon M. Millican, 1st Lt. Jacob Fritz, Capt. Brian S. Freeman, Pfc. Shawn P. Falter and Spc. Johnathan Bryan Chism died in the attack.

FOX News' Nick Simeone and Mike Emanuel and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

[82ndtrooper]

I suppose this gives a new chapter to the understanding of UW or it's alter ego of FID (Thank you Col. JM for that one)

[The Reaper]

I still do not understand how conscious American soldiers are being kidnapped.

We all know what they are going to do with you.

Make them shoot you on site, attack them with your bare hands, if necessary, or use your last frag wisely and take a few of them with you.

Damn!

TR

[37F5V]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I still do not understand how conscious American soldiers are being kidnapped.

We all know what they are going to do with you.

Make them shoot you on site, attack them with your bare hands, if necessary, or use your last frag wisely and take a few of them with you.

Damn!

TR

Amen to that Sir. I wasn't in their shoes but I'll be damned if I am going to die like a dog.

Oh, and Bring back the Duke!

[Sionnach]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I still do not understand how conscious American soldiers are being kidnapped.

We all know what they are going to do with you.

Make them shoot you on site, attack them with your bare hands, if necessary, or use your last frag wisely and take a few of them with you.

Damn!

TR

I don't understand, either. Unless you're incapacitated, fight like your life depends on it, because it does. Hell, fix bayonets if you have to!

[Snaquebite]

Most of us here said that this was too sophisticated to have been put together without assistance . I always speculated Iran. and it was obvious there was inside help. I wonder now how some of these higher ranking Iraqis are vetted if they are at all. Hell we vetted our Iraqi PSD personnel vigorously and intermittently. VSA (voice stress analysis) is a good tool. I also had my own little Iraqi CI guys...We paid them well and I actually trusted them for the most part.

On another note.. wonder how many others might be on some type if Iranian payroll?

[Jgood]

From the SF creed

I will never surrender though I be the last.

If I am taken, I pray that I may have the strength

to spit upon my enemy.

[sg1987]

Originally Posted by PSYRGR

Oh, and Bring back the Duke!

Do we need to start a new thread?

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Snaquebite

Most of us here said that this was too sophisticated to have been put together without assistance . I always speculated Iran. and it was obvious there was inside help. I wonder now how some of these higher ranking Iraqis are vetted if they are at all. Hell we vetted our Iraqi PSD personnel vigorously and intermittently. VSA (voice stress analysis) is a good tool. I also had my own little Iraqi CI guys...We paid them well and I actually trusted them for the most part.

On another note.. wonder how many others might be on some type if Iranian payroll?

Sir, I was thinking the exact same thing. The Iranians are openly trying to seize control of the mid-east, IMO to gain a strategic superiority over Isreal, and they will not stop until they are stopped.

Holly

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I still do not understand how conscious American soldiers are being kidnapped.

Amen Sir...

Crip

[spectre919]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

I don't know much about tactics or anything, but maybe it's that the leader (say a Sergeant) is present when the soldiers are caught, and he reasons maybe he shouldn't sacrifice his men because of that? For example, sort of unrelated I guess in comparison to ground troops, but like that Navy pilot where after the Chinese plane hit them, he flew into China; he reasoned he could safe his crew better that way rather than fly straight out to sea. Maybe it's just a heat-of-the-moment type of thing where technically one would reason, "We should fight to the death so that we are shot instead of the men get captured and tortured," but in the moment, the leader reasons, "There is some hope, I should let us get captured rather than make them shoot us all." Just curious.

I mean this with regards overall to all troops who've been captured, not just the above.

Capture is never an option, at times it happens though (i.e. CWO Michael Durant) when rendered in-capable. If a leadership figure surrenders his men in combat he doesn't deserve the trust and faith placed upon him by his subordinates and should burn in hell.

You never surrender while you have the means fight.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

I don't know much about tactics or anything, but maybe it's that the leader (say a Sergeant) is present when the soldiers are caught, and he reasons maybe he shouldn't sacrifice his men because of that? For example, sort of unrelated I guess in comparison to ground troops, but like that Navy pilot where after the Chinese plane hit them, he flew into China; he reasoned he could safe his crew better that way rather than fly straight out to sea. Maybe it's just a heat-of-the-moment type of thing where technically one would reason, "We should fight to the death so that we are shot instead of the men get captured and tortured," but in the moment, the leader reasons, "There is some hope, I should let us get captured rather than make them shoot us all." Just curious.

I mean this with regards overall to all troops who've been captured, not just the above.

With a Captain and a Lieutenant among the captured who should be knowledgable about the Code of Conduct (see below), the knowledge that the enemy is not complying with the Geneva Conventions, and the information that there are no surviving U.S. POWs being released by the insurgents (in fact, most are tortured before being executed in a propoganda film), there is no doubt that I would kill them or force them to kill me.

All military personnel should be aware of the Code. There may be an upodated version, but it should generally be the same.

Articles of the Code of Conduct

Article I - I am an American, fighting in the forces that guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give up my life in their defense.

Article II - I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

Article III - If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

Article IV - If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information nor take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

Article V - When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

Article VI - I will never forget that I am an American fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

They were captured, surrendered or not, and what happened to them that would not have happened, and with more honor, had they died in place?

TR